Atv's closed beginning of the end

[dana]

Would save more deer if everyone under 55 couldn't hunt in there. Just sayin.

Don't really know what you are alluding to. If you are saying it should be open to Seniors then you are off by 10 years. And I would fully support Seniors 65 and older being exempt from the quad ban. Just hard to police. I can just picture ol' timers being reported by the cool kids with their special BC Fed reporting app on their phone. CO's race up there and chase down an old guy and harass him. Yup, sounds like a good deal. Hahaha. Most CO's would not want to deal with an old guy who is pissed their legal hunt just got interupted. Hahaha

[dana]

Here is the thing I am wrestling with. I use a side by side. I made that choice for two reasons. First, I have a daily driver that I don't want to punish on dirt roads. Second, I have a daily driver that is hard on gas. I have honestly NEVER taken my side by side off of an established road. I simply use it to take the punishment of the dirt road and to save a lot of gas. Why are these bans in place for all ATV/UTV use and not just on all vehicles going off of established roads. I use by side by side to get to the area I will hike into. I shouldn't be kept from doing that in my opinion. It is not a hunting advantage over a Jeep or a Sidekick or a Mini-truck or any other vehicle people take on forest service roads. Why should someone be punished for choosing a vehicle better designed for dirt/rocky roads?

Most people in trucks don't want to beat them, so they too stay on the main roads. Many quad and SxS users are totally good going up deactivated roads no matter how badly they are tank trapped. The Barriere burn had people burning off on anything that looked remotely like a trail regardless of the closed signage. Many signs were pulled down and thrown in the bush. Very hard to police. Much easier to close the whole unit off to ATVs entirely. And keep in mind, these are only a few units. Tons and tons of open legal quad hunting available in Region 3. You want to justify your hunting purchase of the SxS then just hunt all those many units you can legally quad in.

[steel_ram]

Would save more deer if everyone under 55 couldn't hunt in there. Just sayin.

Shoot, I'm there but I can still carry my weight. Lifestyle choices catch up to some. Sucks to be them.

[Pemby_mess]

And if that is not entirely clear I will open another bottle of wine and try again!

Lol, No your point is entirely clear! Perfect pace on the wine consumption!

I appreciate you started down this road on the premise that "Acknowledgement and subsequent discussion of the differing perspectives between hunters should be seen as healthy, not harmful." I agree with that view, but not the example you have chosen to illustrate it. Viewed through the lens of "fair chase", helicopters/drones are beyond the pale. ATVs may be objectionable to some, but there is a general consensus that their use is not unsporting. Extrapolating the argument to include a means of transport that is outside of the law (helicopters), and widely regarded as being rightly so, is not a logical extension of hunters vs hunters where debating the application of different legal means is constructive. It is taking an example from a separate set altogether (illegal/unethical) and superimposing it on a legitimate debate. The use of helicopters is illegal as are other methods of hunting, such as baiting in some circumstances. Opposing those who argue in favour of these methods is not an extension of the issue of hunters opposing hunters any more than say, KIA drivers opposing Ferrari drivers travelling at 150 mph in a school zone is a case of drivers opposing drivers.

Your point is actually pretty close to where I wanted people to go with my helicopter analogy. My argument was in response to the seemingly widespread sentiment that these rules were unfairly targeting hunters vs general ORV use. ORV users are normally in the position of defending their use vis-a-vis off-road trail damage. I was trying to home in on the actual rationale for this particular set of regulations and why they were different from rules ORV users normally rally against.

My mind went over to a helicopter precisely because it eliminated the ordinary habitat degradation angle associated with ORVs. And yes, as you've marvellously delineated, In most situations helicopters and ATVs don't have quite the same ethical implications when it comes to hunting. However; In this case, I believe they actually do. Citing current or precedential law, while perhaps framing a useful reference, isn't adequate. Laws at their best change when they need to change, although typically lag far behind
where their ethical necessity occurs.

You mention baiting as being ethically and legally contentious in some circumstances. A recovering burn is essentially a huge bait station. A natural food plot on the regional scale. So that factors in. Normally I wouldn't consider riding around on a quad glassing tree lines from the road, a strategical advantage over a still-hunt or traditional spot and stalk technique. However when nature has removed all the overhead cover, effectively creating a moonscape through way of a recent fire, all conspiring with a maze of resource roads - both ethics and practicalities come into play in a similar fashion to the chopper allegory. The area in question has the potential to become a massive incubator of ungulates for the region. Allowing 4 months of hunters hammering the zone, criss-crossing at 200km/per man/per day = Why?

What advantage does that paradigm give hunters? Sure some short term gain for the guys that get there in the first few weeks - what about the long term? what about the locals? The only reasonable alternative is putting the area under LEH only. Only someone too attached to their machine could see this regulatory compromise as being negative for general hunter opportunity. I see it the opposite mathematically. If you must hunt from a quad - still no shortage of places to do it.

[Pemby_mess]

I'll boil what I just said down a little further wrt to the chopper thing:

I was trying to make the point that rules banning chopper use for sheep hunting make sense, just as rules banning excessive motorized hunting make sense when it comes to mitigating the effects of a large road penetrated burn. Being supportive of sensible limits on individual hunting accessibility is not "hunters fighting hunters". Notwithstanding, what I might find sensible being different from that which you may.

[Jelvis]

Trying to educate people on why we do this, is going to go nowhere, people like to argue no matter what thee outcomes are, either way, two or three groups of people will start up why? Again. Why? It's going to happen again.
Jel -- all I ask is why? -- Why do people ask why? We gave you lots of mental space and we found an empty place -- Hahaha

[Avalanche123]

Trying to educate people on why we do this, is going to go nowhere, people like to argue no matter what thee outcomes are, either way, two or three groups of people will start up why? Again. Why? It's going to happen again.
Jel -- all I ask is why? -- Why do people ask why? We gave you lots of mental space and we found an empty place -- Hahaha

Hey I finally understood something you wrote... And it makes total sense!

[boxhitch]

Jel, not everyone is so quick to roll over when told to do something stupid. A new rule that targets a particular sector appears stupid until the rest of the story is understood.
Is the ban just part of a larger scheme?
Were hunters targeted just because of the ease to make changes to the hunting regs compared to the difficulty of making changes to the MVA or FRPA?

[Jelvis]

I still think it's because of the October 17th legalization of weed, Kamloops, is not the type of City, that wants there gorgeous hills, we get to marvel at everyday we look around us, tore up anymore.
-- Some of us like this, some don't. I do.
Kamloops is building a huge pot growing facility by our airport, not the City but two fellas have set it up to start very soon.
-- Mu 3-28 is Kamloops country and now is a lot more secure and natural because of this move.
Jel -- Time will show, yet right now already thee excitement is gaining momentum for Mu 3-28 and Skull and Tsinsunkoo and all of the North Thompson River --

[Redthies]

I’m not a fan of government in any form. That said, I drive my truck and camper to my spot and then walk to hunt. I find it far more enjoyable being a part of nature rather than tearing through it at 40 kmh. I don’t mind orv use to get down an FSR, but nothing is more irritating than taking hours to hike in to a spot and then have some clown spook any and all game when they thrash their way in on an atv. And yes, I have used atvs before. I have one sitting in my shop. But I don’t use it to hunt.