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Thread: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

  1. #41
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    Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Sorry was trying to post a pic taken of Saltspring of a pod of orcas completely surrounded by a shit load of whale watching boats but can't get the pic off a FB page.
    Last edited by huntinnewbie; 07-09-2018 at 07:48 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Close all that area so the seals and sea lions population can get even bigger than it already is.
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  3. #43
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    Arrow Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Quote Originally Posted by tubby View Post
    15 years of big bank and Swiftsure fishing...multiple trips a year....80% hatchery fish.
    seen killer whales near ukee once....eating a sea lion.
    matt, you know the area extensively how many residents have you ever seen?
    its almost always transients preying on sea lions at Wya to long beach.
    O have fished these areas commercially, guiding and recreationally for a spell alright.
    I do not ever remember the southern salmon eaters being present except once.
    That was on the Finger Bank SE of La Perouse, and perhaps a decade ago.

    I have seen the transients in action numerous times, and openly encouraged them when they were feeding on sea lions.
    But those are not the question here, their populations are actually doing rather fine.

    So, again, the areas suggested for closure here really do not reflect areas the southern orcas frequent.
    And thus it is very difficult to see this proposal as anything but do-nothing platitudes from DFO for the greenies, and of course helping Parks secure their heart's held desire to control the entire area.

    Deadline for comments is TOMORROW Folks!!

    http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/forms/s...ahier-eng.aspx

    Cheers,
    Nog
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

  4. #44
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    Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Nog

    Here is the scary part that is now becoming the norm in today's world.
    When you have more and more ever leaning leftist organizations and Gov's this is just one small example of legislated compliance to their ideology and beliefs as anyone else's valid concerns are inferior.

    When facts and science get in the way they simply legislate the desired compliance, that's their game. Guaranteed that if the average voter knew how far left Trudeau's position was they never would have voted for them.

    We have a Fed Gov that is commanding speech in how we address people.
    (Trudeau is telling us the words we can or cannot use when addressing certain sectors of the community.)

    Not trying to take this train off the rails but when you have governing bodies that are willing to force their desired goals on anyone at any cost.....look what you get.

    Regulate rather than invest in the real fix.

    Crushing and devastating coastal communities?
    Allowing the biggest strain on salmon stocks to grow in numbers to epidemic levels?
    Ignoring the fact that sport fishing and heavily regulated commercial fishing (for most) is not the known factor in declining salmon stalks?

    Organized insanity at it's finest.


    I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards and forums. - F L Wright


    "Statistics are like women; mirrors of purest virtue and truth, or like whores to use as one pleases". ~Theodor Billroth

  5. #45
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    Arrow Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ourea View Post
    Organized insanity at it's finest.
    Absolutely, 100 % Concur with every single thing you posted.

    It is becoming downright frightening for those of us who live, work and play outdoors.
    The playground gets a little more constrained, and has more rules emplaced on it damn near daily.

    I desperately hope we can break this cycle, and of course will be pushing as hard as I can in the coming PR referendum, and in both the provincial & federal elections.
    We don't stand up on our own hind feet, the leftie snowflakes will run us right off of damn near every single thing we find enjoyable!!

    Worried!
    Nog
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

  6. #46
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    Exclamation Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Many Thanks to those that stood up and got their comments in. It is truly appreciated! It seems these days more and more our governments seem to believe they can simply govern us like sheep, with no consideration of the consequences of their actions. Many are starting to rebel against such control, and demanding accountability. My hat is off to those from here who join us in doing so in these matters!!

    Deadline for Comments is TODAY Folks!

    Again, many Thanks to those who chose to help us fight this nastiness...
    Matt
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

  7. #47
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    Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Quote Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
    You are of course entitled to your opinion.
    I however respectfully disagree.

    Yes, we have too few chinook.
    Yes, we must seek ways to increase their numbers.

    However looking at the lower numbers of springs being the SOLE factor in the decline of the southern orcas is beyond questionable.
    That is simply one piece of the puzzle.
    Inbreeding is prevalent, and if continued, will further reduce their numbers.
    Pollution in their food sources and environment is concentrated in their fatty tissues. Many would be seriously considered "toxic waste" should they roll up on your beach.
    Mothers pass these toxins to their offspring through their milk. Many of those offspring die as a consequence.
    Shipping provides some interference, however IMHO it is the whale watchers who interfere with these animals the most.
    They are "loving them to death" and crowd them constantly / daily.
    There are more of course, but you see where this is headed.

    The government's own biologists told them what was required:
    - Ramp up hatchery production to the max (short term) and increase net pen releases;
    - Get on with major habitat mitigation & enhancement efforts yesterday;
    - Knock back the overly populated pinnipeds proven to consume damn near 1/2 the annual production of springs & coho in the effected areas. (By the way, these pinnipeds consume 600 % of the combined commercial & recreational catch annually).

    Those same biologists cautioned against area / fishing closures, specifically noting "they would provide very little in the way of significant positive results". DFO has chosen the "easy way out" in this case, choosing NOT to address what their own scientists are advising them, and proceeding with draconian closures in order to "appear" to be doing something, while in fact doing nothing.
    Sad.

    So, I'll choose to side with the Biologists. I trust their science, and I trust their gut instincts.
    The government has lead us into many many messes by ignoring their advice.
    Methinks this is simply another case of the same.

    FYI: Although a case can be made for some of Swiftsure, the same is not true northwest of that area.
    It is frequented by US origin chinook, that travel but rarely into the areas where they could present prey items to the southern orcas.

    Note that these whales have fluctuated up and down between where they are now, and 10 - 15 more individuals ever since the days of aquarium capture ended. This has been going on for some time now.
    There is a price to pay for being a "specialist".
    The northern and transient pods have been increasing through the same time periods.

    Also note Parks Canada involvement in this latest proposal.
    That fits ever so nicely with their twice defeated agenda of creating marine park areas in the exact same areas.
    Please do not try to convince me that is unintentional...

    Nog
    I understand your passionate defense of the status quo, or rather, chinook fishing opportunities. However, let's disect your response:

    1.
    Inbreeding is prevalent, and if continued, will further reduce their numbers.
    True. OK, how do we address this? It is a problem, but I can see no way to address it. If you cannot influence the problem, that is not an excuse to do nothing that you can influence.

    2.
    Pollution in their food sources and environment is concentrated in their fatty tissues. Many would be seriously considered "
    toxic waste
    " should they roll up on your beach.
    True again! Same answer though.

    3.
    Mothers pass these toxins to their offspring through their milk. Many of those offspring die as a consequence.
    Well, for this one, I would ask for a reference, whose work are you citing. However, I it sounds reasonable, so am not going to dispute you. Again, "so what?"

    4.
    Shipping provides some interference, however IMHO it is the whale watchers who interfere with these animals the most.
    They are "
    loving them to death
    " and crowd them constantly / daily.

    I think the Feds did something about this today, actually (at least I saw it on the news, no other information about it though).

    5.
    There are more of course, but you see where this is headed.
    Yes, I do see where this is headed, it is deflecting the issue of providing Orcas their food, in the interest of maintaining chinook fishing opportunities.

    Don't get me wrong, I have been a life-long fisherman and hunter, but the science I have reviewed doesn't paint a very rosy picture for chinook fishermen. I am not an advocate (and in fact am a strong opponent) of what seems to be an unholy alliance between some BC First Nations and some international environmental advocacy groups.

    Finally, some of your points are spot on. The increase of seals and sea-lions is unconscionable. Predator management is a legitimate form of wildlife management, but like the wolf situation, any political party that advocated culling seal or sea lion populations wouldn't stand a chance.

    So, we can only do what we can do. And currently, it seems DFO can only do chinook closures. Personally, I don't think these will cut it (as you don't as well, from you post), so there will be more on the horizon, so enjoy what is left right now while you can!

  8. #48
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    Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Ya Id say the solution is culling seals and sea lions and start producing some serious hatchery numbers....these closures are so useless at solving the problem that most likely the SRKW will disappear all together before the chinook numbers ever increase enough...in which case they can open the fishing back up again.....or maybe the damn picky whales will learn to eat something else.

  9. #49
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    Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Knock back the overly populated pinnipeds proven to consume damn near 1/2 the annual production of springs & coho in the effected areas. (By the way, these pinnipeds consume 600 % of the combined commercial & recreational catch annually).
    So basically the same thing that happened to the East Coast Cod is going to happen here. F*** me...!
    DFO...I don't know what O stands for, but DF clearly stands for Dumb F***ers. Two coasts, EXACT SAME F***up!
    God help us.

    Apologies for the language, but I'm beside myself. You'd think they would learn.
    Last edited by Edward Teach; 07-12-2018 at 08:51 AM.
    The floggings shall continue until morale improves.

  10. #50
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    Arrow Re: DFO Poises To Close Huge Offshore Areas

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert Retired View Post
    ...
    There are more of course, but you see where this is headed.

    Yes, I do see where this is headed, it is deflecting the issue of providing Orcas their food, in the interest of maintaining chinook fishing opportunities.


    As previously noted, these closures and restrictions, according to DFO's own science team, will not make any significant difference in the number of chinook available for the whales to consume. The effect of this proposal will result in extremely little gain, at a cost of great disruption to individuals and Communities as a whole. It simply isn't worth it.

    There are many other steps that could, and should be taken IF the chinook and the whales were the REAL concern here.


    Don't get me wrong, I have been a life-long fisherman and hunter, but the science I have reviewed doesn't paint a very rosy picture for chinook fishermen.


    Unfortunately this may be true. DFO's performance when it comes to protecting resources, and enhancing both habitat and salmon populations is much less than stellar. Under their particular form of management, most (if not all) the resources that are unfortunate enough to fall under their mandate are likely doomed in the long haul.

    Finally, some of your points are spot on. The increase of seals and sea-lions is unconscionable. Predator management is a legitimate form of wildlife management, but like the wolf situation, any political party that advocated culling seal or sea lion populations wouldn't stand a chance.
    Which would lead to the conclusion that such harvests or culls would necessarily have to be performed by those who are under the least influence by the government in this regard as possible...


    There are a great many things that are more harmful than anglers in this matter.
    DFO knows that, but chooses time and time again to follow the path of least resistance, and fire on the low hanging fruit that it can influence without actually doing anything constructive nor positive. They have followed this pattern for so long now they do not know any other way it seems.

    I'd like to offer a firm Thank You to those from here who took a few minutes out of their lives to provide help in the way of comment.
    Your efforts are sincerely appreciated!!

    This fight is far from over, simply Round One is winding down is all.
    The negative effects of this proposal are both wide in scope, and completely unacceptable.
    We will continue to fight this every inch of the way, and the groundswell of support for that pursuit is growing daily.
    No one can predict if we will carry the day or not.
    But we sure as hell are going to give it our best shot!

    Again, Thanks Folks!!

    Cheers,
    Nog
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

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