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Thread: Everyone should comment— link attached

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    131

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    I don't understand the questions. Buncha high educated lawyer talk.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    region 9
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    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    Quote Originally Posted by caddisguy View Post
    "Wildlife management decisions need to be based on science and decisions from local biologists rather than “social acceptance” or “the number of” internationally sourced emotionally driven emails from special interest groups as arrogantly admitted when the grizzly hunt was banned. Please stop treating wildlife management as a political football for perceived short term popularity wins."
    Very well said..

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    region 9
    Posts
    11,591

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    Done...lol let's see if they accept my comment on First Nations harvest..I'm betting nooooo....

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    66

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    My Response:

    To whom it may concern,
    How should a broad range of stakeholders be involved in wildlife management and habitat conservation decisions?

    To begin with, I think it’s important we define the terms that we’re working with.

    Stakeholder: "a person with an interest or concern in something, especially a business."

    Wildlife Management: “the manipulation of wildlife populations and habitat to achieve a goal (Sargent and Carter, 1999).”

    Habitat Conservation: “a management practice that seeks to conserve, protect and restore habitat areas for wild plants and animals, especially conservation reliant species, and prevent their extinction, fragmentation or reduction in range.”

    With these definitions in mind, I will attempt to answer your question.

    First of all, when seeking the involvement of stakeholders, I think it’s important to acknowledge who is and who is not a stakeholder and to also recognize that not all stakeholders have an equal “interest or concern” in all of our province’s wildlife. For example, an outfitter with a hunting concession in Atlin has a very large interest or concern in the wildlife management practices of the Skeena region. On the other hand, does a resident of White Rock who has never been north of Kamloops (with no intent on changing that in the near future) have an interest in the management of wildlife in B.C.’s Northwest? Hardly.

    Given the dramatically different “stakes” that these two people hold, the outfitter—and others like her (e.g. fishing guides, local scientists, bear viewers and viewing companies, hunters, mining and logging companies, etc.)—should have dramatically more involvement in the Wildlife Management decisions made in the area given that the decisions made will affect their stakes significantly more.
    In short, not all stakeholders are equal and those with the greatest “interest or concerns” in the area should be given larger consideration in making decisions since those decisions will impact them in a far greater way—"more stakeholders” should not mean anybody with an opinion.

    Second, if you want to get maximum involvement of stakeholders, you need to maximize the number of people with an actual stake in the wildlife game. This in turn means maximizing the amount of wildlife at stake in the first place.
    It appears the current policies have a goal dividing up an ever-shrinking pie of wildlife, instead of a goal of increasing the size of the pie so we can all enjoy a slice. In practice, this looks like putting fishing restrictions in place while shutting down or failing to invest in hatcheries. It looks like allowing widespread logging without offsetting habitat restoration afterwards. It looks like limiting natural wildfires without a widespread program of controlled burns to open up new habitat or restore overgrown habitat.

    Another way of looking at it is with the lens of supply and demand. If we only look at the “demand” side of the equation (harvest rates, logging quotas, fishing catch rates), while ignoring the effects of supply (habitat enhancement/alteration, supplementing populations through translocations, hatcheries, etc.), wildlife populations shrink. When populations shrink, you lose opportunity. With less opportunity, there are less participants. With fewer participants, you have fewer stakeholders.
    If you want to increase stakeholders, increase the size of the “wildlife pie” to start so you have a greater pool of true stakeholders with whom to engage.

    Thirdly, is that habitat conservation—as defined above—cannot be a passive activity. Endeavors like controlled burns, stream rehabilitation, classroom hatcheries, and restoration activities must become routine. Rather than looking at an area and asking “what is the carrying capacity for x species” we should be saying “what could the carrying capacity be if we improved the habitat.” In this way, we can increase the amount of wildlife and the opportunities for new and existing stakeholders to enjoy them.

    Finally, engage with the hunting community! Groups like the Wild Sheep Foundation and Wild Sheep Society of B.C., the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance, National Wild Turkey Federation, Mule Deer Foundation, B.C. Wildlife Federation, Ducks Unlimited, and others exist to help ensure thriving populations of wild game. They will be the “muscle” you need to improve the carrying capacity of the land.

    These groups raise millions of dollars to ensure thriving populations of game and have armies of volunteers that are eager to collect data, share knowledge, participate in conservation projects, and more. If you ask, they will respond. Ignore, undermine, or denigrate them (like the government did with the grizzly bear decision), and you lose your largest single constituency of stakeholders. Stakeholders willing to give their personal money, time and energy—not just their opinions—to see wildlife thrive in British Columbia.

    What are your suggestions for a new governance model for wildlife management and habitat conservation?


    I don’t think a “new” model is necessarily the answer, just one that is new to British Columbia. Our neighbours to the south have a highly effective model of conservation.

    Using elk as a microcosm, the combined population of elk in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana is approximately 467,000. British Columbia—with approximately the same area—doesn’t even have accurate population data, but the best estimate I could find puts our population at roughly 30,000. While the habitat may not be the exact same, the carrying capacity of British Columbia is most definitely not 6.5% that of those 4 states.

    So what do they do differently? For one, they invest heavily in wildlife management. Oregon’s Department of Fish and Wildlife has a budget 20 times as large as that of B.C. in dollars per kilometer squared and over 5 times as large in absolute terms even though their population is 13% less than British Columbia. Other states demonstrate similar disparities in spending relative to British Columbia.

    Where do they get the money? For one, all of the dollars from the sale of hunting tags and hunting and fishing licenses go directly into the budgets of their Fish and Game departments. In addition, the United States has the Pittman-Robertson act that collects taxes on the sales of all hunting and fishing related products and funnels that money directly into conservation spending.

    With those dollars in hand, the departments themselves take a much more proactive role in monitoring and enhancing wildlife populations in their states. Translocations, supplemental feeding, habitat enhancement, predator control, stream rehabilitation, hatcheries, fish lifts, and more are all major parts of the work they do. The thriving wildlife populations are evidence of their success and yet we ignore their policies and keep trying to divvy up our shrinking pie… Why try to reinvent the wheel? Just talk to those states and borrow their models.

    Additionally, these states prioritize scientific research and planning over emotional responses to management of their wildlife, in particular with respect to hunting. They work with hunters to accomplish their objectives rather than ignoring them.

    Finally, the numbers only represent the state budgets. These states have chosen to work with anglers and hunters and established trust with large hunting groups like those previously mentioned. These groups contribute millions more private funds to the enhancement and preservation of habitat for the benefit of all.

    Sargent, M.S and Carter, K.S., ed. 1999. Introduction to Wildlife & Habitat Management. Retrieved on 29 May 2018 from http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/publicati...fe_and_Hab.htm

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    9,436

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    lol...

    I copied Caddis guys reply in there thinking it was a "letter to the govt" and found out it was like a face book convo.... Sorry Caddis guy, I just liked your reply, and I hijacked it, then found out what was happening.....

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    6,447

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwrestler View Post
    My Response:

    To whom it may concern,
    How should a broad range of stakeholders be involved in wildlife management and habitat conservation decisions?

    To begin with, I think it’s important we define the terms that we’re working with.

    Stakeholder: "a person with an interest or concern in something, especially a business."

    Wildlife Management: “the manipulation of wildlife populations and habitat to achieve a goal (Sargent and Carter, 1999).”

    Habitat Conservation: “a management practice that seeks to conserve, protect and restore habitat areas for wild plants and animals, especially conservation reliant species, and prevent their extinction, fragmentation or reduction in range.”

    With these definitions in mind, I will attempt to answer your question.

    First of all, when seeking the involvement of stakeholders, I think it’s important to acknowledge who is and who is not a stakeholder and to also recognize that not all stakeholders have an equal “interest or concern” in all of our province’s wildlife. For example, an outfitter with a hunting concession in Atlin has a very large interest or concern in the wildlife management practices of the Skeena region. On the other hand, does a resident of White Rock who has never been north of Kamloops (with no intent on changing that in the near future) have an interest in the management of wildlife in B.C.’s Northwest? Hardly.

    Given the dramatically different “stakes” that these two people hold, the outfitter—and others like her (e.g. fishing guides, local scientists, bear viewers and viewing companies, hunters, mining and logging companies, etc.)—should have dramatically more involvement in the Wildlife Management decisions made in the area given that the decisions made will affect their stakes significantly more.
    In short, not all stakeholders are equal and those with the greatest “interest or concerns” in the area should be given larger consideration in making decisions since those decisions will impact them in a far greater way—"more stakeholders” should not mean anybody with an opinion.

    Second, if you want to get maximum involvement of stakeholders, you need to maximize the number of people with an actual stake in the wildlife game. This in turn means maximizing the amount of wildlife at stake in the first place.
    It appears the current policies have a goal dividing up an ever-shrinking pie of wildlife, instead of a goal of increasing the size of the pie so we can all enjoy a slice. In practice, this looks like putting fishing restrictions in place while shutting down or failing to invest in hatcheries. It looks like allowing widespread logging without offsetting habitat restoration afterwards. It looks like limiting natural wildfires without a widespread program of controlled burns to open up new habitat or restore overgrown habitat.

    Another way of looking at it is with the lens of supply and demand. If we only look at the “demand” side of the equation (harvest rates, logging quotas, fishing catch rates), while ignoring the effects of supply (habitat enhancement/alteration, supplementing populations through translocations, hatcheries, etc.), wildlife populations shrink. When populations shrink, you lose opportunity. With less opportunity, there are less participants. With fewer participants, you have fewer stakeholders.
    If you want to increase stakeholders, increase the size of the “wildlife pie” to start so you have a greater pool of true stakeholders with whom to engage.

    Thirdly, is that habitat conservation—as defined above—cannot be a passive activity. Endeavors like controlled burns, stream rehabilitation, classroom hatcheries, and restoration activities must become routine. Rather than looking at an area and asking “what is the carrying capacity for x species” we should be saying “what could the carrying capacity be if we improved the habitat.” In this way, we can increase the amount of wildlife and the opportunities for new and existing stakeholders to enjoy them.

    Finally, engage with the hunting community! Groups like the Wild Sheep Foundation and Wild Sheep Society of B.C., the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance, National Wild Turkey Federation, Mule Deer Foundation, B.C. Wildlife Federation, Ducks Unlimited, and others exist to help ensure thriving populations of wild game. They will be the “muscle” you need to improve the carrying capacity of the land.

    These groups raise millions of dollars to ensure thriving populations of game and have armies of volunteers that are eager to collect data, share knowledge, participate in conservation projects, and more. If you ask, they will respond. Ignore, undermine, or denigrate them (like the government did with the grizzly bear decision), and you lose your largest single constituency of stakeholders. Stakeholders willing to give their personal money, time and energy—not just their opinions—to see wildlife thrive in British Columbia.

    What are your suggestions for a new governance model for wildlife management and habitat conservation?


    I don’t think a “new” model is necessarily the answer, just one that is new to British Columbia. Our neighbours to the south have a highly effective model of conservation.

    Using elk as a microcosm, the combined population of elk in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana is approximately 467,000. British Columbia—with approximately the same area—doesn’t even have accurate population data, but the best estimate I could find puts our population at roughly 30,000. While the habitat may not be the exact same, the carrying capacity of British Columbia is most definitely not 6.5% that of those 4 states.

    So what do they do differently? For one, they invest heavily in wildlife management. Oregon’s Department of Fish and Wildlife has a budget 20 times as large as that of B.C. in dollars per kilometer squared and over 5 times as large in absolute terms even though their population is 13% less than British Columbia. Other states demonstrate similar disparities in spending relative to British Columbia.

    Where do they get the money? For one, all of the dollars from the sale of hunting tags and hunting and fishing licenses go directly into the budgets of their Fish and Game departments. In addition, the United States has the Pittman-Robertson act that collects taxes on the sales of all hunting and fishing related products and funnels that money directly into conservation spending.

    With those dollars in hand, the departments themselves take a much more proactive role in monitoring and enhancing wildlife populations in their states. Translocations, supplemental feeding, habitat enhancement, predator control, stream rehabilitation, hatcheries, fish lifts, and more are all major parts of the work they do. The thriving wildlife populations are evidence of their success and yet we ignore their policies and keep trying to divvy up our shrinking pie… Why try to reinvent the wheel? Just talk to those states and borrow their models.

    Additionally, these states prioritize scientific research and planning over emotional responses to management of their wildlife, in particular with respect to hunting. They work with hunters to accomplish their objectives rather than ignoring them.

    Finally, the numbers only represent the state budgets. These states have chosen to work with anglers and hunters and established trust with large hunting groups like those previously mentioned. These groups contribute millions more private funds to the enhancement and preservation of habitat for the benefit of all.

    Sargent, M.S and Carter, K.S., ed. 1999. Introduction to Wildlife & Habitat Management. Retrieved on 29 May 2018 from http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/publicati...fe_and_Hab.htm
    impressive/comprehensive answer...well done

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern West Kootenays
    Posts
    1,461

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwrestler View Post
    My Response:

    To whom it may concern,
    How should a broad range of stakeholders be involved in wildlife management and habitat conservation decisions?

    To begin with, I think it’s important we define the terms that we’re working with.

    Stakeholder: "a person with an interest or concern in something, especially a business."

    Wildlife Management: “the manipulation of wildlife populations and habitat to achieve a goal (Sargent and Carter, 1999).”

    Habitat Conservation: “a management practice that seeks to conserve, protect and restore habitat areas for wild plants and animals, especially conservation reliant species, and prevent their extinction, fragmentation or reduction in range.”

    With these definitions in mind, I will attempt to answer your question.

    First of all, when seeking the involvement of stakeholders, I think it’s important to acknowledge who is and who is not a stakeholder and to also recognize that not all stakeholders have an equal “interest or concern” in all of our province’s wildlife. For example, an outfitter with a hunting concession in Atlin has a very large interest or concern in the wildlife management practices of the Skeena region. On the other hand, does a resident of White Rock who has never been north of Kamloops (with no intent on changing that in the near future) have an interest in the management of wildlife in B.C.’s Northwest? Hardly.

    Given the dramatically different “stakes” that these two people hold, the outfitter—and others like her (e.g. fishing guides, local scientists, bear viewers and viewing companies, hunters, mining and logging companies, etc.)—should have dramatically more involvement in the Wildlife Management decisions made in the area given that the decisions made will affect their stakes significantly more.
    In short, not all stakeholders are equal and those with the greatest “interest or concerns” in the area should be given larger consideration in making decisions since those decisions will impact them in a far greater way—"more stakeholders” should not mean anybody with an opinion.

    Second, if you want to get maximum involvement of stakeholders, you need to maximize the number of people with an actual stake in the wildlife game. This in turn means maximizing the amount of wildlife at stake in the first place.
    It appears the current policies have a goal dividing up an ever-shrinking pie of wildlife, instead of a goal of increasing the size of the pie so we can all enjoy a slice. In practice, this looks like putting fishing restrictions in place while shutting down or failing to invest in hatcheries. It looks like allowing widespread logging without offsetting habitat restoration afterwards. It looks like limiting natural wildfires without a widespread program of controlled burns to open up new habitat or restore overgrown habitat.

    Another way of looking at it is with the lens of supply and demand. If we only look at the “demand” side of the equation (harvest rates, logging quotas, fishing catch rates), while ignoring the effects of supply (habitat enhancement/alteration, supplementing populations through translocations, hatcheries, etc.), wildlife populations shrink. When populations shrink, you lose opportunity. With less opportunity, there are less participants. With fewer participants, you have fewer stakeholders.
    If you want to increase stakeholders, increase the size of the “wildlife pie” to start so you have a greater pool of true stakeholders with whom to engage.

    Thirdly, is that habitat conservation—as defined above—cannot be a passive activity. Endeavors like controlled burns, stream rehabilitation, classroom hatcheries, and restoration activities must become routine. Rather than looking at an area and asking “what is the carrying capacity for x species” we should be saying “what could the carrying capacity be if we improved the habitat.” In this way, we can increase the amount of wildlife and the opportunities for new and existing stakeholders to enjoy them.

    Finally, engage with the hunting community! Groups like the Wild Sheep Foundation and Wild Sheep Society of B.C., the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance, National Wild Turkey Federation, Mule Deer Foundation, B.C. Wildlife Federation, Ducks Unlimited, and others exist to help ensure thriving populations of wild game. They will be the “muscle” you need to improve the carrying capacity of the land.

    These groups raise millions of dollars to ensure thriving populations of game and have armies of volunteers that are eager to collect data, share knowledge, participate in conservation projects, and more. If you ask, they will respond. Ignore, undermine, or denigrate them (like the government did with the grizzly bear decision), and you lose your largest single constituency of stakeholders. Stakeholders willing to give their personal money, time and energy—not just their opinions—to see wildlife thrive in British Columbia.

    What are your suggestions for a new governance model for wildlife management and habitat conservation?


    I don’t think a “new” model is necessarily the answer, just one that is new to British Columbia. Our neighbours to the south have a highly effective model of conservation.

    Using elk as a microcosm, the combined population of elk in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana is approximately 467,000. British Columbia—with approximately the same area—doesn’t even have accurate population data, but the best estimate I could find puts our population at roughly 30,000. While the habitat may not be the exact same, the carrying capacity of British Columbia is most definitely not 6.5% that of those 4 states.

    So what do they do differently? For one, they invest heavily in wildlife management. Oregon’s Department of Fish and Wildlife has a budget 20 times as large as that of B.C. in dollars per kilometer squared and over 5 times as large in absolute terms even though their population is 13% less than British Columbia. Other states demonstrate similar disparities in spending relative to British Columbia.

    Where do they get the money? For one, all of the dollars from the sale of hunting tags and hunting and fishing licenses go directly into the budgets of their Fish and Game departments. In addition, the United States has the Pittman-Robertson act that collects taxes on the sales of all hunting and fishing related products and funnels that money directly into conservation spending.

    With those dollars in hand, the departments themselves take a much more proactive role in monitoring and enhancing wildlife populations in their states. Translocations, supplemental feeding, habitat enhancement, predator control, stream rehabilitation, hatcheries, fish lifts, and more are all major parts of the work they do. The thriving wildlife populations are evidence of their success and yet we ignore their policies and keep trying to divvy up our shrinking pie… Why try to reinvent the wheel? Just talk to those states and borrow their models.

    Additionally, these states prioritize scientific research and planning over emotional responses to management of their wildlife, in particular with respect to hunting. They work with hunters to accomplish their objectives rather than ignoring them.

    Finally, the numbers only represent the state budgets. These states have chosen to work with anglers and hunters and established trust with large hunting groups like those previously mentioned. These groups contribute millions more private funds to the enhancement and preservation of habitat for the benefit of all.

    Sargent, M.S and Carter, K.S., ed. 1999. Introduction to Wildlife & Habitat Management. Retrieved on 29 May 2018 from http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/publicati...fe_and_Hab.htm
    Very well said! Thanks for taking the time to write such a good response and for sharing it with us. You put to pen what many of us are thinking.
    "Target archery is seeing how far away you can get and still hit the bull's eye;
    Bowhunting is seeing how close you can get and never miss your mark."

    "A man's got to know his limitations"

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    region 9
    Posts
    11,591

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    ^^^^^x3, very well said...I hope they listen....however, lastest estimation has our elk pops a little higher, I hope it indeed is...
    http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife...t_18_Final.pdf

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gold River
    Posts
    359

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    Thanks for the opportunity

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    52

    Re: Everyone should comment— link attached

    I responded to all 3 hope every hunter out there puts in there 2 cents

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