Region 4 LEH Cow Elk Allocations??

[HarryToolips]

Some Info that may be of interest:

Q:
Hearing some people talk about region 4s populations being way lower than anticipated.
Is the population really down to approx 6000.
How did that happen? Some mentioned that the estimate was 15-20k.
Hoping for some clarity.
Thank you.

A:
Hi, the elk survey we completed this winter is for the East Kootenay Trench (MUs 4-02 to 4-04, 4-20 to 4-22, 4-24 to 4-26) and the estimate is going to be about 6800 elk. The previous estimate in 2008 was 14,000 elk but this was more than the habitat could support so populations were reduced from 2009-2013. Cow harvest is minimal now and we had pretty high calf ratios on the survey so I suspect the population is going to rebound.


Q:So we can expect the cow elk leh to be downsized/removed.


A:Yes, I think people underestimate the impact of cats on our ungulate population and it seems like there’s no shortage of them.
I have been encouraging hunters to increase the female cougar harvest. Same thing for bears, especially when it comes to impacts on neonate calves and fawns.

Thanks for the info, assuming it's from someone in the MOE such as a regional biologist...let's hope they're on the upswing..

[dapesche]

Thanks for the info, assuming it's from someone in the MOE such as a regional biologist...let's hope they're on the upswing..

Correct. Info from the ministry.

[LBM]

Correct. Info from the ministry.

Could you say who in the ministry said this, you can send me a message if you like.
Thanks.

[dapesche]

LBM,

I am going to leave the specific details out of this. I have pried many biologists for information over the last year and in general the response has been quite poor.
I met a couple local biologist and they have been great in regards to information. The last thing I'd want to have happen is for them to get bombarded with inquiries and then shut down like some of the other folks have.

[J_T]

The details provided by Dapesche are commonly understood by many in the area. I wouldn't suggest that a single person/source is the only source of the information.

[Fisher-Dude]

LBM,

I am going to leave the specific details out of this. I have pried many biologists for information over the last year and in general the response has been quite poor.
I met a couple local biologist and they have been great in regards to information. The last thing I'd want to have happen is for them to get bombarded with inquiries and then shut down like some of the other folks have.

Wise move. Personally cultivating relationships with ministry staff in all areas of government takes time and effort, and trust in those relationships is earned as a result.

If others are too lazy to foster their own relationships, or want to undermine what you've accomplished, it's best to take the route you've chosen. Not all people on this forum want the same outcome as you.

[LBM]

LBM,

I am going to leave the specific details out of this. I have pried many biologists for information over the last year and in general the response has been quite poor.
I met a couple local biologist and they have been great in regards to information. The last thing I'd want to have happen is for them to get bombarded with inquiries and then shut down like some of the other folks have.

If you don't want to say that is fine, I have talked to many as well, some with different opinions then you have stated, or at least that is what they said.
On the topic of cats and your comment that they say it seems like there is no shortage, I would ask how they would come up with that, there basic answer is they don't no what is out there, so I would ask why they think there is no shortage, there basic answer is that is what they are told by the hunters, when asked what hunters they say the deer hunters.
So this is how decisions are made, not on science, not on studys or data not on input by those that are out there just on emotion. There is lots of people out there that no cat populations are down in many MUs, Bios included. And yes I no that it shows the mortality on there collared deer is higher by cats but that's what happens when you take there food source away (whitetail) they have to eat something, would also be interesting to see what number of those collared deer are relocated town deer. Lots of variables go into why things happen, but you actually have to be out there to see it.

[dana]

Little confused by the conversation. Lions have to be CI'd so they have 100% reporting. Wolves, no CI and no mandatory reporting. Not a lot of hunters are randomly chosen for the wolf harvest questionare. But by the hunter data they are saying cougars are a much bigger problem then wolves? The math doesn't add up for me.

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

Anti Cougar hunting adovcate in the midst of this thread, some always want less hunting - http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showth...-s-MU-Clusters

As an aside, I've been selected for Wolf harvest questionnaire for the past two years consecutively.

Fisher-Dude came through with what I figure to be the correct answer in post #2 above.

[LBM]

Little confused by the conversation. Lions have to be CI'd so they have 100% reporting. Wolves, no CI and no mandatory reporting. Not a lot of hunters are randomly chosen for the wolf harvest questionare. But by the hunter data they are saying cougars are a much bigger problem then wolves? The math doesn't add up for me.

Lots of variables involved as I mentioned dana, but there talking Region 4 here, page 21 of the regs.