Selkirk Caribou close to Extinct

[gcreek]

Well, they should have gotten rid of the moose so the wolves would move on thereby saving the Caribou. Tongue firmly in cheek regards.

Yes, that has worked very well hey?

The bios will keep using caribou for a job creation plan as long as one is alive. They can make people believe all kinds of BS but predation is the main factor for all wildlife loss in the last 20 years.

If that is too hard for some to absorb I'll make it simpler to understand. Why are predators the only wildlife with healthy populations as compared to prey species?

[gcreek]

i think so, what's your point?

that the caribou pack down the snow as they move? Have you ever walked up a cat-track?

#1, Mountain Caribou don't only stay in the alpine during the whole year. They move in and out of it as conditions permit.

#2, They travel long distances over their ranges creating trails for anything to follow, including wolves.

#3 Limiting access will have a small part in saving a caribou from a wolf but if a wolf is hungry, they will get to their prey regardless if there is a human made access to it or not.

Why do you support all aspects of "saving the caribou" but a bit of predator control?

[Pemby_mess]

If that is too hard for some to absorb I'll make it simpler to understand. Why are predators the only wildlife with healthy populations as compared to prey species?

Because predators are riding on the coat-tails of THE superpredator. They are adapting to the landscape we have created at a faster rate than their prey.

[Pemby_mess]

#1, Mountain Caribou don't only stay in the alpine during the whole year. They move in and out of it as conditions permit.

#2, They travel long distances over their ranges creating trails for anything to follow, including wolves.

#3 Limiting access will have a small part in saving a caribou from a wolf but if a wolf is hungry, they will get to their prey regardless if there is a human made access to it or not.

Why do you support all aspects of "saving the caribou" but a bit of predator control?

who said I don't support targeted, comprehensive predator control? I certainly don't support any and every means of it. I don't support eradicating any wildlife species either.

I am saying the issue is greater than that, and so must the solutions to the problem be.

I dont really agree with the wider scope of your points either. Being followed by a single pack of wolves, is a whole lot more manageable for a herd of caribou than being head off in every direction by predators of all kinds following packed down roads as a super highway to a buffet. Being forced out of the alpine by snow conditions is different than being forced down into a breakable crust in the trees by overhead helicopters and a party of snowmobiles.

[dana]

Because predators are riding on the coat-tails of THE superpredator. They are adapting to the landscape we have created at a faster rate than their prey.

Man has managed predators since the dawn of time, but suddenly they are off limits and every other critter must suffer because man can not bear the thought of a dog dying. The fact is there has been regulation upon regulation to save these caribou. And those regulations have not worked. Why?? Is it that we don't have enough regulations??? The city dwellers that think they know best have never put boots to the ground and actually thought out the situation. They sit at their computers and type in piety that the damn knuckdraggers need to come to their senses and be restricted into oblivion. That lap dog under your chair couldn't possibly be such a vicious killer. No, that can't possibly be. He loves me. I can see it in his eyes. No, it is man that is the vicious killer. It is man that needs to go.

[Ride Red]

"Some recovery program officials cautioned, however, that the primarycause of the decline in the southern Selkirk caribou population is currentlyunknown and it is important not to designate predation as the ultimatereason. For example, these officials noted that marginal habitat may be themajor problem."

it it then goes on to describe the existent impacts of motorized winter recreation. This was written before the exact mechanism of injury regarding winter recreation was fully known.

Hey Pemby, if your going to cut and paste, make sure you get it all; not just what suites your purpose for argument.

Quote: ”Although the cause of death is unknown for many caribou, researchers currently believe that predation (killing), mainly by cougars, is the most common cause.”

[Ride Red]

Because predators are riding on the coat-tails of THE superpredator. They are adapting to the landscape we have created at a faster rate than their prey.

Wolf populations have increased dramatically over the last 10 plus years and a major restorative cull is in order to keep checks and balances. Without this, all prey are in serious trouble. It’s not that hard to see if you spend any amount of time outside the major populations areas.

[Pemby_mess]

Man has managed predators sinse the dawn of time, but suddenly they are off limits and every other critter must suffer because man can not bear the thought of a dog dying. The fact is there has been regulation upon regulation to save these caribou. And those regulations have not worked. Why?? Is it that we don't have enough regulations??? The city dwellers that think they know best have never put boots to the ground and actually thought out the situation. They sit at their computers and type in piety that the damn knuckdraggers need to come to their senses and be restricted into oblivion. That lap dog under your chair couldn't possibly be such a vicious killer. No, that can't possibly be. He loves me. I can see it in his eyes. No, it is man that is the vicious killer. It is man that needs to go.

Are you actually responding to anything that I've said, or do you have some kind of personal chip on your shoulder and thought it might be appropriate to vent to me about it?

Re Regulations: I don't think I'm advocating for more necessarily as much as implementing the right ones where they make sense. More importantly strictly enforcing the really important ones. Also being more cohesive and dynamic/ proactive with what is implemented. Less reactionary. More co-operation is necessary for balancing values for land use planning, the impacts recognized by every stakeholder, and authoritative mitigation fully executed. All of which certainly involves some predator control, yes Dana; thank you.

[Pemby_mess]

Wolf populations have increased dramatically over the last 10 plus years and a major restorative cull is in order to keep checks and balances. Without this, all prey are in serious trouble. It’s not that hard to see if you spend any amount of time outside the major populations areas.

sure, I'll agree with that. But thought has to be given to what happens after. To be effective, what has happened needs to be soberly acknowledged.

[Pemby_mess]

Hey Pemby, if your going to cut and paste, make sure you get it all; not just what suites your purpose for argument.

Quote: ”Although the cause of death is unknown for many caribou, researchers currently believe that predation (killing), mainly by cougars, is the most common cause.”

"currently believed" "for many".......in 1999

i wasn't about to copy and paste 68 pages or whatever it was. I thought given the age of the research, highlighting the projected conclusion to be more relevant.

I also described the modern day context to the quote, in which we now have a better idea of the entire mechanism behind their decline.