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Thread: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

  1. #31
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    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    Wolfer88 no disrespect but when you say "I like how lots of hunters are finally jumping on the wolf band wagon but more harm can come from a bunch of wannabes who think it would be “cool” to trap or shoot a wolf compared to an experienced wolf trapper who can kill a pack and not just educate the pack." Are you saying if a hunter sees a wolf he should not try and kill it. Or it a trapper catches 6 out of a pack of 7 he is doing more harm than good . Have you ever missed one or two from a pack or are you 100 % successful on all your trapping. Please don't but others down because you think you are better than them , they are we are trying the best we can and like Chilcotin Hillbilly said NOT all the LPP trappers can take out a whole pack

  2. #32
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    Jan 2007
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    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    PROGUIDE"..CHILCOTIN Hillbilly, Trapman, Wolfer88", Lay gentlemen.Dave.
    Thank you for your time, money, effort it is appreciated by some..
    Srupp

  3. #33
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    Oct 2010
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    4,594

    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    Quote Originally Posted by speycaster View Post
    Maybe if ranchers got off government welfare and paid a fair price per cow for grazing on public land, the average person in BC would have some sympathy for them. Otherwise losses to public animals (bear, wolves ) is a cost they must bear for ridiculously cheap rental of public land. I have offered ranchers the same price to rent their owned land as they pay for ours, but no one seems to want to accept my offer. that offer still stands.
    Have you ever ranched or understand the costs involved in raising cattle? By your comments, it’s a “NO”.
    If you can pack it in, You can pack it out !!!

    UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL !!!


    BCWF
    WSSBC
    CCFR
    " The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but building on the new"
    Socrates.

  4. #34
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    Oct 2010
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    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    From all us hunters who realize the good that everyone is doing to reduce wolf numbers, thank you.
    If you can pack it in, You can pack it out !!!

    UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL !!!


    BCWF
    WSSBC
    CCFR
    " The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but building on the new"
    Socrates.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    2

    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    Trapman, nobody is 100% successful and I’m not putting anyone down. Are you an LPP trapper as well? Do you have high wolf populations where you live? What I’m saying is tough to get across I guess but some will understad. With the new social media craze that’s going on right now with trying to line up wolf killers all over the province I am a bit nervous and I think we all should be of something going horribly wrong. I love to trap and I would hate to lose it because some “wannabe” like I say buys a couple traps and illegally sets them and catches someones prized animal. (You can’t even butcher a god damn pig nowadays without it making the news)!!! Now he’s linked to the masses and we all make good old CBC news and potentially lose our rights to trap. And after seeing how personal opinions created our grizzly bear disaster it’s a sad reality that we have to almost keep what we do a secret in order to be successful. Of course if a hunter gets a chance to shoot a wolf he’s gonna blast it but most likely he’s more concerned about getting a good selfie with the wolf for his Facebook than he is about going out and trying to hunt down the rest of the pack.

  6. #36
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    Hope
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    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    Welcome and I'm glad to see you here Wolfer88 you're making some good points and seem to have your eyes wide open to the big picture, which is all to easy to loose track of. Best of luck with the rest of the season.
    its gonna take a life time to hunt and fish all this

  7. #37
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    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    Quote Originally Posted by whognu View Post
    Dave (gcreek) would like to offer up his recent speech to the cattlemen's association as a step towards our collective fight towards controlling preds


    he (because he is currently on a HBC timeout) would like to have this speech forwarded to every MLA and news outlet in bc (the target market) by as many people (us) as possible

    i (chris) believe it is balanced, fair, inclusive and correctly identifies the problem


    i believe it takes the spotlight off one 'problem' usergroup (hunters) and identifies it as 'everyones' problem

    problem is that neither he (nor i) is a tech guy

    neither of us are sure how to make it as easy as possible to be 'printable or forwardable' by all of us to the people that need to read this

    we need your help to accomplish this; either suggestions how to do this, or possibly one of you (techies) could spearhead the actual logistics in getting it a wide audience

    maybe it's as simple as a cut and paste yet maybe some of you have much more effective suggestions for distribution


    if each and every one of us flood the 'market' over the next 2 week period i think that would have the biggest impact in government education/public perception

    of note; this is in no way to detract from those currently trapping wolves, it is to start a second front with the express goal (hope) of educating the 'average' bc citizen and all the politicos

    finally as a secondary effort, this could be sent to everyone of your friends to raise general awareness

    help if you can

    whognu

    ps. imagine how the narrative would change if the first nations would create and distribute a similar letter.....

    Good day fellow cattlemen and women and guests.
    Today I would like to talk about an expense that is very difficult to deal with. It is caused by nature, swept under carpets by vote hungry politicians, and poorly managed,​​​ if I may say so​,​ ​ by our Associations and Min​​istry of Environment.
    Predators! Where do we go from here?
    2002 saw cattlemen in this province feel the need for a program​​m that would pay for losses and mitigate problem wildlife. In due time​,​ a very competent specialist was hired and problem predators for ranchers were being removed. In the first 4 years, this specialist removed nearly 500 wolves, a couple dozen bears and a handful of cougars. Then changes were made​ again, with​ different ad​​ministrators, different committees​ and ​different rules​. ​Finally, as I was told by a committee member, it was costing $4500 per wolf to have this specialist under contract.
    I have difficulty believing that operator cost that much by himself as I now employ him​,​ and the most costly packs we have removed are in the $1500 range. The contractor is also employed by our neighbor and over the last 10 years they have removed over 110 wolves from our operations, at great expense to us​.​ ​Was administration really costing $3000 per wolf removed?
    As a sidenote to this time period. The contractor removed the offending predators well enough from our range area that in 2008, we weaned a 102% calf crop for 300 cows.
    Moving on, at our government's request, BCCA, MOE, BCTA decided it was best to go to a somewhat bounty system for a time. This apparently wasn't satisfactory to some, so it was decided to train anyone who was​interested in giving trapping a go. ​Sometimes the inexperienced trappers were able to get one wolf, ​or ​maybe 4​,​ but ​generally they could not remove the whole pack. Step one to fragmented packs and more wolves.
    Then a few members of the COS decided they would take predator control back. It was quite unfair for anyone to expect a CO to come from a big city background, have three days training and expect results. In a short time, they dropped handling livestock complaints due to wolf depredation and dumped the whole responsibility back on BC Cattlemens Assoc. Their efforts of catching some wolves added to fragmented packs again.
    Amongst all this, some producers have gotten frustrated enough to try a bit of mitigating on their own​. With the inability​ ​to take the time necessary due to trying to make a living in the ranching world, and/or without the necessary experience, more fragmentation has occurred.
    Here we are today with another underfunded bounty system in place, sponsored by a government with no heart in supporting it, manned by a few specialists who can catch a whole pack, and more who simply can't. This operation has had 387 cattle not return from range since 2003. Reduced weight gains on calves, poorer conception rates and doctoring those animals that escaped being killed has likely cost us in the neighborhood of ¾ of a million dollars. Meanwhile, those that administrate and make plans for us haven’t missed a paycheque.
    In the last 20 years, wolves have migrated to every corner of this province, the cattlemen are paying for it dearly and game herds have been decimated.​ That's a fact. Guide Outfitters are having their quotas cut, Resident Hunters have small chance of a draw and First Nations sustenance​ ​hunters are unable to feed their families. Hunters are the easiest to blame (and control), but they are hardly at fault.
    The wolves are not alone. What has now become a somewhat protected specie, the grizzly bear, has taken a huge toll on our herd since 2003 also. When I was a boy 50 years ago at Horsefly it was very uncommon to hear of a grizzly in settled areas there. I hear now it is a common occurrence and many sows have multiple families. I am hearing of grizzly sightings in almost the whole province now too. They are far from the endangered ​"​Teddy​"​ media and extremists would have us believe.

    BCCA has the only predator mitigation plan in the province. It is ridiculous to expect cattlemen to shoulder the burden on our own and quite frankly, it is not working.
    Where to now? Our efforts to date surely aren't having much effect are they?
    I strongly propose we stand together as Cattlemen, with Natives, Guide​ ​Outfitters, and Resident ​H​unters, and tell Government the time for studies has ended. No more collaring moose to find what has killed them​, ​no more gathering wolf scat to see what they have eaten,​ no more feel good programs that administrators garner funds from and cattlemen pay the costs and no more hoping the problem will go away because no one wants to talk about it. It is possible that if we stand together we may get results.
    There are many factors that contribute to the current overpopulation of predators, and those factors certainly need to be considered for the long term. But the problem remains glaringly clear. The balance is completely out of kilter and we need to right it again.
    Let's use these seemingly endless study funds to thin the ranks of these apex predators to sustainable levels before Canada's Serengeti is completely devoid of it's fauna. Those in power are managing wildlife​,​ and us​ all​, to death.

    Respectfully, Dave Brace
    Guichon Creek Ranch
    Anahim Lake BC

    Thanks for posting whognu and thanks for sharing gcreek, that's a well written spiel there. Best of luck
    its gonna take a life time to hunt and fish all this

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Yucatan Mexico
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    14,909

    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    Good episode on Best of the West this week. Deals with predation on cattle ranches right here in BC...
    https://oceola.ca/
    http://bcwf.net/index.php
    http://www.wildsheepsociety.net/

    I Give my Heart to my Family....
    My Mind to my Work.......
    But My Soul Belongs to the Mountains.....

  9. #39
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    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild one View Post
    I agree and disagree with what you are saying

    No doubt wolf trapping is a skill and some trappers are way more effective then others. These skilled wolf trappers no doubt are giving the best bang for your buck.

    That said donations to a trapper that is less skilled with wolves also has the possibility of giving the trapper motivation to improve his skills as a wolf trapper as well. This makes it more cost effective for him to increase his effort on wolf trapping as well. In my opinion it has the ability of creating a larger number of skilled wolf trappers

    In my opinion it all depends on the individual trapper one invests in. If the trapper has the mind set of trying to put in the effort to step up out of respect for those donating that is the biggest thing.

    If the trapper increases their effort highly skilled or not it is a positive. If it causes trappers to improve their wolf trapping skills long term BC will have more good wolf trappers

    The skilled wolf trapper is going to have the biggest impact to start in their area. But if this program creates more skilled wolf trappers across BC long term even better. On a provincial level we need more skilled wolf trappers
    Sure people have to learn some where but as mentioned in the letter in some cases the wrong people are causing more of a problem. This can be from both lack of skill or methods used.
    In past threads I think gcreek mentioned his trappers use legholds and they seem to have good success from what he says, except it sounds like he still has a problem Before he was banned he also mentioned about snares and the incidentals (non-target) that were caught such as calves and cougars, not sure how many in his area but in other areas there is quit a number of incidentals (non-target) animals caught. So don't think its right that so many non-target animals have to die because of unskilled trappers or the methods being used. If certain
    trappers have the skills and methods to go in and just get wolves then let them do it.

  10. #40
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    Nov 2008
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    944

    Re: Wolves 2.0 a call to action

    Quote Originally Posted by LBM View Post
    Sure people have to learn some where but as mentioned in the letter in some cases the wrong people are causing more of a problem. This can be from both lack of skill or methods used.
    In past threads I think gcreek mentioned his trappers use legholds and they seem to have good success from what he says, except it sounds like he still has a problem Before he was banned he also mentioned about snares and the incidentals (non-target) that were caught such as calves and cougars, not sure how many in his area but in other areas there is quit a number of incidentals (non-target) animals caught. So don't think its right that so many non-target animals have to die because of unskilled trappers or the methods being used. If certain
    trappers have the skills and methods to go in and just get wolves then let them do it.
    I have an idea, why don't you show some of of these unskilled and green trappers how to properly set some snares and footholds so they don't catch so many non-target animals, would be a productive move to mentor someone.

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