Wolves 2.0 a call to action

[whognu]

Dave (gcreek) would like to offer up his recent speech to the cattlemen's association as a step towards our collective fight towards controlling preds


he (because he is currently on a HBC timeout) would like to have this speech forwarded to every MLA and news outlet in bc (the target market) by as many people (us) as possible

i (chris) believe it is balanced, fair, inclusive and correctly identifies the problem

i believe it takes the spotlight off one 'problem' usergroup (hunters) and identifies it as 'everyones' problem

problem is that neither he (nor i) is a tech guy

neither of us are sure how to make it as easy as possible to be 'printable or forwardable' by all of us to the people that need to read this

we need your help to accomplish this; either suggestions how to do this, or possibly one of you (techies) could spearhead the actual logistics in getting it a wide audience

maybe it's as simple as a cut and paste yet maybe some of you have much more effective suggestions for distribution

if each and every one of us flood the 'market' over the next 2 week period i think that would have the biggest impact in government education/public perception

of note; this is in no way to detract from those currently trapping wolves, it is to start a second front with the express goal (hope) of educating the 'average' bc citizen and all the politicos

finally as a secondary effort, this could be sent to everyone of your friends to raise general awareness

help if you can

whognu

ps. imagine how the narrative would change if the first nations would create and distribute a similar letter.....

Good day fellow cattlemen and women and guests.
Today I would like to talk about an expense that is very difficult to deal with. It is caused by nature, swept under carpets by vote hungry politicians, and poorly managed,​​​ if I may say so​,​ ​ by our Associations and Min​​istry of Environment.
Predators! Where do we go from here?
2002 saw cattlemen in this province feel the need for a program​​m that would pay for losses and mitigate problem wildlife. In due time​,​ a very competent specialist was hired and problem predators for ranchers were being removed. In the first 4 years, this specialist removed nearly 500 wolves, a couple dozen bears and a handful of cougars. Then changes were made​ again, with​ different ad​​ministrators, different committees​ and ​different rules​. ​Finally, as I was told by a committee member, it was costing $4500 per wolf to have this specialist under contract.
I have difficulty believing that operator cost that much by himself as I now employ him​,​ and the most costly packs we have removed are in the $1500 range. The contractor is also employed by our neighbor and over the last 10 years they have removed over 110 wolves from our operations, at great expense to us​.​ ​Was administration really costing $3000 per wolf removed?
As a sidenote to this time period. The contractor removed the offending predators well enough from our range area that in 2008, we weaned a 102% calf crop for 300 cows.
Moving on, at our government's request, BCCA, MOE, BCTA decided it was best to go to a somewhat bounty system for a time. This apparently wasn't satisfactory to some, so it was decided to train anyone who was​interested in giving trapping a go. ​Sometimes the inexperienced trappers were able to get one wolf, ​or ​maybe 4​,​ but ​generally they could not remove the whole pack. Step one to fragmented packs and more wolves.
Then a few members of the COS decided they would take predator control back. It was quite unfair for anyone to expect a CO to come from a big city background, have three days training and expect results. In a short time, they dropped handling livestock complaints due to wolf depredation and dumped the whole responsibility back on BC Cattlemens Assoc. Their efforts of catching some wolves added to fragmented packs again.
Amongst all this, some producers have gotten frustrated enough to try a bit of mitigating on their own​. With the inability​ ​to take the time necessary due to trying to make a living in the ranching world, and/or without the necessary experience, more fragmentation has occurred.
Here we are today with another underfunded bounty system in place, sponsored by a government with no heart in supporting it, manned by a few specialists who can catch a whole pack, and more who simply can't. This operation has had 387 cattle not return from range since 2003. Reduced weight gains on calves, poorer conception rates and doctoring those animals that escaped being killed has likely cost us in the neighborhood of ¾ of a million dollars. Meanwhile, those that administrate and make plans for us haven’t missed a paycheque.
In the last 20 years, wolves have migrated to every corner of this province, the cattlemen are paying for it dearly and game herds have been decimated.​ That's a fact. Guide Outfitters are having their quotas cut, Resident Hunters have small chance of a draw and First Nations sustenance​ ​hunters are unable to feed their families. Hunters are the easiest to blame (and control), but they are hardly at fault.
The wolves are not alone. What has now become a somewhat protected specie, the grizzly bear, has taken a huge toll on our herd since 2003 also. When I was a boy 50 years ago at Horsefly it was very uncommon to hear of a grizzly in settled areas there. I hear now it is a common occurrence and many sows have multiple families. I am hearing of grizzly sightings in almost the whole province now too. They are far from the endangered ​"​Teddy​"​ media and extremists would have us believe.

BCCA has the only predator mitigation plan in the province. It is ridiculous to expect cattlemen to shoulder the burden on our own and quite frankly, it is not working.
Where to now? Our efforts to date surely aren't having much effect are they?
I strongly propose we stand together as Cattlemen, with Natives, Guide​ ​Outfitters, and Resident ​H​unters, and tell Government the time for studies has ended. No more collaring moose to find what has killed them​, ​no more gathering wolf scat to see what they have eaten,​ no more feel good programs that administrators garner funds from and cattlemen pay the costs and no more hoping the problem will go away because no one wants to talk about it. It is possible that if we stand together we may get results.
There are many factors that contribute to the current overpopulation of predators, and those factors certainly need to be considered for the long term. But the problem remains glaringly clear. The balance is completely out of kilter and we need to right it again.
Let's use these seemingly endless study funds to thin the ranks of these apex predators to sustainable levels before Canada's Serengeti is completely devoid of it's fauna. Those in power are managing wildlife​,​ and us​ all​, to death.

Respectfully, Dave Brace
Guichon Creek Ranch
Anahim Lake BC

[horshur]

Thanks Dave!

[IronNoggin]

[f350ps]

The big question remains, why the EFF is he on a timeout, speaking the truth to much maybe and some snowflake had his feelings hurt! K

[emerson]

Very well presented. Sometimes the internet (especially forums) is a difficult way to communicate in a measured way. Likely what trips up Dave. Sometimes becoming good at something (like trapping) requires stepping back from quantifying life as a dollars and cents game. Proguide66 has some very good points. It's a tough call for most of us to re-orient our lives to become effective at trapping for the "greater good". Some folks do make significant sacrifices to do something we enjoy that makes a difference. Rewards often do come eventually, but the investment comes first. I am seriously considering it. Not a choice to make lightly.

[Gateholio]

The big question remains, why the EFF is he on a timeout, speaking the truth to much maybe and some snowflake had his feelings hurt! K

He's on a time out because he was asked several times to stop doing something, yet he kept on doing it. I think gcreek is a fine guy but people should remember only to call bluffs in poker games. I gave him several warnings and opportunities but he wanted to call me, but I just did what I said I was going to do.

[.264winmag]

Well done.
Permission to share?
Cheers

[f350ps]

He's on a time out because he was asked several times to stop doing something, yet he kept on doing it. I think gcreek is a fine guy but people should remember only to call bluffs in poker games. I gave him several warnings and opportunities but he wanted to call me, but I just did what I said I was going to do.

That's unfortunate as he's got more knowledge and more to offer than 90% of the people on here! K

[steveo]

That's unfortunate as he's got more knowledge and more to offer than 90% of the people on here! K

I agree but look what he wrote on his time-out, pretty good if you ask me. I would ban him a couple more times if he keeps coming up with writings like that, lol.

[Gateholio]

Dave (gcreek) would like to offer up his recent speech to the cattlemen's association as a step towards our collective fight towards controlling preds


he (because he is currently on a HBC timeout) would like to have this speech forwarded to every MLA and news outlet in bc (the target market) by as many people (us) as possible

i (chris) believe it is balanced, fair, inclusive and correctly identifies the problem

i believe it takes the spotlight off one 'problem' usergroup (hunters) and identifies it as 'everyones' problem

problem is that neither he (nor i) is a tech guy

neither of us are sure how to make it as easy as possible to be 'printable or forwardable' by all of us to the people that need to read this

we need your help to accomplish this; either suggestions how to do this, or possibly one of you (techies) could spearhead the actual logistics in getting it a wide audience

maybe it's as simple as a cut and paste yet maybe some of you have much more effective suggestions for distribution

if each and every one of us flood the 'market' over the next 2 week period i think that would have the biggest impact in government education/public perception

of note; this is in no way to detract from those currently trapping wolves, it is to start a second front with the express goal (hope) of educating the 'average' bc citizen and all the politicos

finally as a secondary effort, this could be sent to everyone of your friends to raise general awareness

help if you can

whognu

ps. imagine how the narrative would change if the first nations would create and distribute a similar letter.....

Good day fellow cattlemen and women and guests.
Today I would like to talk about an expense that is very difficult to deal with. It is caused by nature, swept under carpets by vote hungry politicians, and poorly managed,​​​ if I may say so​,​ ​ by our Associations and Min​​istry of Environment.
Predators! Where do we go from here?
2002 saw cattlemen in this province feel the need for a program​​m that would pay for losses and mitigate problem wildlife. In due time​,​ a very competent specialist was hired and problem predators for ranchers were being removed. In the first 4 years, this specialist removed nearly 500 wolves, a couple dozen bears and a handful of cougars. Then changes were made​ again, with​ different ad​​ministrators, different committees​ and ​different rules​. ​Finally, as I was told by a committee member, it was costing $4500 per wolf to have this specialist under contract.
I have difficulty believing that operator cost that much by himself as I now employ him​,​ and the most costly packs we have removed are in the $1500 range. The contractor is also employed by our neighbor and over the last 10 years they have removed over 110 wolves from our operations, at great expense to us​.​ ​Was administration really costing $3000 per wolf removed?
As a sidenote to this time period. The contractor removed the offending predators well enough from our range area that in 2008, we weaned a 102% calf crop for 300 cows.
Moving on, at our government's request, BCCA, MOE, BCTA decided it was best to go to a somewhat bounty system for a time. This apparently wasn't satisfactory to some, so it was decided to train anyone who was​interested in giving trapping a go. ​Sometimes the inexperienced trappers were able to get one wolf, ​or ​maybe 4​,​ but ​generally they could not remove the whole pack. Step one to fragmented packs and more wolves.
Then a few members of the COS decided they would take predator control back. It was quite unfair for anyone to expect a CO to come from a big city background, have three days training and expect results. In a short time, they dropped handling livestock complaints due to wolf depredation and dumped the whole responsibility back on BC Cattlemens Assoc. Their efforts of catching some wolves added to fragmented packs again.
Amongst all this, some producers have gotten frustrated enough to try a bit of mitigating on their own​. With the inability​ ​to take the time necessary due to trying to make a living in the ranching world, and/or without the necessary experience, more fragmentation has occurred.
Here we are today with another underfunded bounty system in place, sponsored by a government with no heart in supporting it, manned by a few specialists who can catch a whole pack, and more who simply can't. This operation has had 387 cattle not return from range since 2003. Reduced weight gains on calves, poorer conception rates and doctoring those animals that escaped being killed has likely cost us in the neighborhood of ¾ of a million dollars. Meanwhile, those that administrate and make plans for us haven’t missed a paycheque.
In the last 20 years, wolves have migrated to every corner of this province, the cattlemen are paying for it dearly and game herds have been decimated.​ That's a fact. Guide Outfitters are having their quotas cut, Resident Hunters have small chance of a draw and First Nations sustenance​ ​hunters are unable to feed their families. Hunters are the easiest to blame (and control), but they are hardly at fault.
The wolves are not alone. What has now become a somewhat protected specie, the grizzly bear, has taken a huge toll on our herd since 2003 also. When I was a boy 50 years ago at Horsefly it was very uncommon to hear of a grizzly in settled areas there. I hear now it is a common occurrence and many sows have multiple families. I am hearing of grizzly sightings in almost the whole province now too. They are far from the endangered ​"​Teddy​"​ media and extremists would have us believe.

BCCA has the only predator mitigation plan in the province. It is ridiculous to expect cattlemen to shoulder the burden on our own and quite frankly, it is not working.
Where to now? Our efforts to date surely aren't having much effect are they?
I strongly propose we stand together as Cattlemen, with Natives, Guide​ ​Outfitters, and Resident ​H​unters, and tell Government the time for studies has ended. No more collaring moose to find what has killed them​, ​no more gathering wolf scat to see what they have eaten,​ no more feel good programs that administrators garner funds from and cattlemen pay the costs and no more hoping the problem will go away because no one wants to talk about it. It is possible that if we stand together we may get results.
There are many factors that contribute to the current overpopulation of predators, and those factors certainly need to be considered for the long term. But the problem remains glaringly clear. The balance is completely out of kilter and we need to right it again.
Let's use these seemingly endless study funds to thin the ranks of these apex predators to sustainable levels before Canada's Serengeti is completely devoid of it's fauna. Those in power are managing wildlife​,​ and us​ all​, to death.

Respectfully, Dave Brace
Guichon Creek Ranch
Anahim Lake BC

Great message. Seems like the Cattlemen Assoc should get on board with PG66 Grassroots movement. Everyone is on the same side- stop waiting for government to waffle around, fund some trappers and get it done!