Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?

[Chuck]

I think they should open the season for these coarse deer even more!! Its our muleys that are in trouble in places.

I couldn't agree more!

[dana]

WT harvest is increasing, not decreasing. That's a sure sign of an increasing population.

Perhaps the knuckle draggers need to change tactics if they have uncut tags and think it's the shits out there.

I can bias the data just by filling out my harvest questionaire for 2017. I hunted 3 months for mule deer and didn't kill one. I hunted 2 days for whitetail and killed 2. Sounds like whitetail numbers are through the roof don't it? Nope! I just happen to know of a couple small pockets where a few live and when you are looking for meat, any whitetail will do. Heck, I actually could skew the numbers even worse if I said how many hours I hunted for whitetail. Between the 2 harvests, I didn't even hunt for an hour combined. Hmm, geeze, we must be over run with the suckers eh? Not on your life!!! As mule deer numbers continue to tank, it is a given that hunters will take advantage of liberal 'any' whitetail seasons just so they can help refill the freezer. And it takes numerous whitetails to match the amount of meat a muley can provide. Whitetail Harvest has only gone up because the seasons are so liberal.

[Wild one]

I couldn't agree more!

Add elk to the list then proven in many studies to have the largest impact on MD numbers when it comes to ungulate species

[Wild one]

I can bias the data just by filling out my harvest questionaire for 2017. I hunted 3 months for mule deer and didn't kill one. I hunted 2 days for whitetail and killed 2. Sounds like whitetail numbers are through the roof don't it? Nope! I just happen to know of a couple small pockets where a few live and when you are looking for meat, any whitetail will do. Heck, I actually could skew the numbers even worse if I said how many hours I hunted for whitetail. Between the 2 harvests, I didn't even hunt for an hour combined. Hmm, geeze, we must be over run with the suckers eh? Not on your life!!! As mule deer numbers continue to tank, it is a given that hunters will take advantage of liberal 'any' whitetail seasons just so they can help refill the freezer. And it takes numerous whitetails to match the amount of meat a muley can provide. Whitetail Harvest has only gone up because the seasons are so liberal.

Yes but if you use data to support your agenda without supporting evidence that is how you can get people to support your views lol


Science is only good for some if they can pick and choose how to use it

[dana]

Yes but if you use data to support your agenda without supporting evidence that is how you can get people to support your views lol


Science is only good for some if they can pick and choose how to use it

This is the exact reason why some have lost all credibility on this site. Spouting off 'science' as a preacher spouts off scripture. If you take scripture out of context, you can make it say anything to support your view. If you take science out of context you can make it say anything to support your view. 'Science' is the new dogma, the new 'religion'. It is used and abused by those who have an agenda. You are made to feel 'guilty' if you don't aggree. You are 'not worthy' and 'unelightened' if you question. Lets just change the word 'Sinner' with the word 'knuckledragger'. Just like some religious leaders of the 80's who guilted their followers to hand over money for their 'cause' ended up going down in flames when the truth came out, the same will happen to the 'science' preachers of today. There is already a strong 'antiscience' movement growing. This is why people are drinking 'untreated' water and burning insence. This is why 'emotion' is taking hold. Because the charlatons have over used 'science'. But, of course, there are charlatons in the 'antiscience' movement as well. Another new Religion emerges and the cycle continues. Meanwhile, real science is sitting there, collecting dust and the Masters of Old, are rolling over in their graves.
Thus ends todays Sermon on this blustery Sunday.

[Wild one]

This is the exact reason why some have lost all credibility on this site. Spouting off 'science' as a preacher spouts off scripture. If you take scripture out of context, you can make it say anything to support your view. If you take science out of context you can make it say anything to support your view. 'Science' is the new dogma, the new 'religion'. It is used and abused by those who have an agenda. You are made to feel 'guilty' if you don't aggree. You are 'not worthy' and 'unelightened' if you question. Lets just change the word 'Sinner' with the word 'knuckledragger'. Just like some religious leaders of the 80's who guilted their followers to hand over money for their 'cause' ended up going down in flames when the truth came out, the same will happen to the 'science' preachers of today. There is already a strong 'antiscience' movement growing. This is why people are drinking 'untreated' water and burning insence. This is why 'emotion' is taking hold. Because the charlatons have over used 'science'. But, of course, there are charlatons in the 'antiscience' movement as well. Another new Religion emerges and the cycle continues. Meanwhile, real science is sitting there, collecting dust and the Masters of Old, are rolling over in their graves.
Thus ends todays Sermon on this blustery Sunday.

Agree 100% and we have had years of propaganda here in BC when it comes to wildlife. It is getting very clear agendas are pushed with selecting science that only supports end goals

Biggest issue is you can find a ton of studies on the same subjects with mixed results. So many contritions on what is except able numbers for every aspect of a deer herd make up for example. Along with results on predation levels and winter survival rates

My views may not be exactly the same as yours but I think we can both agree a lot going on in BC is not right or questionable

[Husky7mm]

Read this the other day.....
“The cultural authority of science has become so totalitarian, so imperial, that everybody has to have science on their side in order to win a debate,”

[dana]

Agree 100% and we have had years of propaganda here in BC when it comes to wildlife. It is getting very clear agendas are pushed with selecting science that only supports end goals

Biggest issue is you can find a ton of studies on the same subjects with mixed results. So many contritions on what is except able numbers for every aspect of a deer herd make up for example. Along with results on predation levels and winter survival rates

My views may not be exactly the same as yours but I think we can both agree a lot going on in BC is not right or questionable

I betcha our views are not that far apart and yes, I agree 100%, there is a lot going on in BC that is not right!

[Bugle M In]

Wild One,
Okay, so R5 had low buck to Doe ratios, thus the Nov 10-20 closure, got it.
But, how long has that closure been in place now (it's been a # of years now).
So, my question is, how are things going up there, did it "fix the issue"??

As for Wolves following WT...no, I doubt there was a study, it was just an observation that the 2 species kinda showed up 1 after the other, but that could just have been due to packs getting to big and needing "new territory".
Regardless how they got there, theres way too many of them now.

As for Dogs targeting MD, that might be completely true, but, if MD are low and more WT exists, they don't get fussy, and have seen plenty of wolf scat with WT hair in it.

Anyways other then that question about how things are now and R5, i'm kinda done with reading this thread.

[Wild one]

Wild One,
Okay, so R5 had low buck to Doe ratios, thus the Nov 10-20 closure, got it.
But, how long has that closure been in place now (it's been a # of years now).
So, my question is, how are things going up there, did it "fix the issue"??

As for Wolves following WT...no, I doubt there was a study, it was just an observation that the 2 species kinda showed up 1 after the other, but that could just have been due to packs getting to big and needing "new territory".
Regardless how they got there, theres way too many of them now.

As for Dogs targeting MD, that might be completely true, but, if MD are low and more WT exists, they don't get fussy, and have seen plenty of wolf scat with WT hair in it.

Anyways other then that question about how things are now and R5, i'm kinda done with reading this thread.

Dont have an update on 5 so can’t say if it achieved results. With a small closure of 10 days during 4pt season I would not expect a drastic results. Been told the reason it was only a 10day loss is opposition

There was a lot of accusations thrown around about this closure when it happened basically blaming special interest groups and the fact data from ratios was the reason was ignored. I only got the study showing the real reason behind it because of this. Have not looked for an update in honesty

As for wolves they eat all ungulates and then some this includes WT. Deer in general are lower on the list of prey if other options are available in most cases. WT are just lowest on the list as they are more adapt to avoiding predation. Let’s be honest the wolves may have proffered prey but they don’t pass on opurtunity when hungry

Just the first time I have heard WT being the reason for wolves


Most of what you see in this thread is to show look beyond what is being pushed here. There is a bad problem of only hand picked data or partial management used from studies or management plans here in BC to focus towards the same max harvest management goals. Lots of 1/2 truths being flogged

I urge everyone do your own research and Read as many studies you can from all over North America not just what is pasted on HBC. Come to your own conclusion after doing so. No doubt you will find contradictions