Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?

[dana]

Can any one tell me, anecdotally is fine, how many whitetail were taken in regions 3,5 and 7 say 40 50, or even 60 years ago? Basing opinion of what has happened on the last 10 to 20 is just to short of a time frame to establish a pattern. If I look at the old maps they are certainly in more areas they used to be. How many whitetails did some of the more experienced hunters on this forum kill around 100 mile house and Merrit in the 70s; how many did your parents kill in the 50s? To say there has been a collapse in the last 10 years could be very misleading if they didn't really appear in any numbers until 20 or 25 years ago. They may have expanded to into areas that traditionally couln't have supported them and now are returning to a more traditional range.

I can tell you in my neck of the woods of Region 3, whitetails were very common in the 40's and 50's. But then the sevre winters and heavy snows of the late 60's and early 70's came in and the whitetails had to yard up and were easy targets for wolves and cougars. They got hit so bad, there was speculation they were almost extinct in the area. They even transplanted a small herd here sometime in the late 70's or early 80's. There were small pockets of them here or there, particularly on the river bottom but they didn't really start to be seen again in any numbers until the mid 90's. Then, with the easy winters of the late 90's and early 2000's, they seemed to do quite well and a person could really harvest one every year if you put some time in. But then came the wolf invasion of the late 2000's and the added open doe season in 2010 and now, numbers are noticably much much lower. Harvest numbers can easily be attributed to the open doe season and the decline of mule deer. With muleys being harder and harder to find, hunters still want to fill their freezers so they will take advatage of the liberal seasons. I know my family certainly have. Take away those doe seasons and put bucks onto the same season lengths that Region 8 is on, and you will see the harvest rates drop drastically. If that happened, would FD then jump to the conclusion of a decline based on how he skews the data right now? Nope, then the drop in harvest would be attributed to the season changes. Funny how he is always skewing the data ain't it? Like he has an agenda or something eh?

[bownut]

The Harvest Data and Recruitment Data is all they have to work with, if they decide to Reboot the system all hat historical data will be useless. How will they continue to show such great success stories
without it? How can we continue to carry on with all this opportunity? God forbid we cut 5 days off of a season, we will never get it back! You guys have no idea of the Strategic Plan, and wheres your Science?
Hold on people, I can see the light..

[Iltasyuko]

Does anyone have the Regipn 8 WT doe harvest for the 8 years prior to the WT doe GOS and for the 8 years with GOS?

[HarryToolips]

"a sure sign of increasing population?????" This is close to being the most assanine comment I've read of your more than 19,000 posts.

Of course the harvest is increasing because the doe seasons are increasing. You can now shoot anything that moves.

If your happy shooting a doe standing 50 yards off the road with her fawn by her sid, then your idea of quality hunting is a lot different than mine.

Whatever credibility you have enjoyed on this site is eroding rapidly with idiotic comments like that.......

The WT doe season has not changed since it was implemented...usually, USUALLY, an increasing harvest is a sign of increasing populations..sure, other factors can contribute to an increase in harvest such as access, but, it usually means the population is overall increasing...I heard that the MOE spring counts over the Christian valley area were once again good...

[HarryToolips]

They are doing a great job of keeping region a mule deer stronghold. It's so good they are reducing the bag limit.

Thats provincially....I also hear that the pred numbers are higher in the north of reg 3, so it makes sense...if the pred numbers are indeed causing a decrease in the population, I'm all for helping the mulies out, as I'm sure most of us are..it is also proposed because the buck:doe ratio is a concern in some MU's, not just in reg three..it should improve ratios slightly by making some hunters more selective on taking bucks, wanting to harvest a more mature buck..

[Fisher-Dude]

Does anyone have the Regipn 8 WT doe harvest for the 8 years prior to the WT doe GOS and for the 8 years with GOS?

Before = average 662
After = average 1254

[HarryToolips]

So white tail numbers in region 3 are having a negative affect on mule deer numbers but not having an affect in regions 4,5, 7 or 8.
I'm thinking that if you killed off about 30,000 white tail in region 8 there should be a huge increase in the mule deer population.
People say it's working well in region 3.

According to the chart here, it says whitetails in reg 3 are steady to increasing.....
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife...t_18_Final.pdf

sure, it's an estimate, they can't say for sure, but they are biologists that know a lot more than you and I..and they do have methods that can at least give a good idea of general trends...even the BC outdoors magazine, the regional manager for region 3 has been quoted as saying the whitetail season in reg 3 is under-utilized, meaning the population could still sustain a higher harvest.....in the parts of reg 3 I hunt, I'm seeing a stable population, including on trail cams....so in your areas are you seeing a population implosion, or is it all speculation?? What are your trail cams telling you??

[labguy]

The WT doe season has not changed since it was implemented..

Doe season hasn't increased for 7 years.

You should read your regs once in a while.

For fork sake you two I know all that......You can't take an increase in harvest over a few years as being indicative of anything from a scientific standpoint.

For two guys that are continually spouting the "Science " aspect of things you sure know how to cherry pick your data....

FD I take back what I said about you losing credibility......you've completely lost it. I once had a high degree of respect for your opinion......

And Harry...you have nine or so years experience hunting to back up your opinions....talk to me when you've got another fifty or so under your belt....

Regards, Gramps

[wideopenthrottle]

2015 moose hunt region 3 near lac la hashe we pulled into a small road and were about to park when we saw a group of about a dozen muley does on the hill about 250-300yds away ...we had no muley doe tag so we just kinda stood up on the running boards of my truck watching them with the binos...."hey" i said "theres WT mixed in with the mules...In the momentary excitement, (both of us had wt tags) i got down and went to switch binos for rifle.....as i was getting my rifle, we managed to spook them (buddy was still looking through the binocs and slipped off the running board making a loud enough noise to scare them...the mulies did head up over the hill while the white tails headed for the timber with tails up...we stopped ignoring deer for the rest of that trip

[HarryToolips]

For fork sake you two I know all that......You can't take an increase in harvest over a few years as being indicative of anything from a scientific standpoint.

For two guys that are continually spouting the "Science " aspect of things you sure know how to cherry pick your data....
Gu
FD I take back what I said about you losing credibility......you've completely lost it. I once had a high degree of respect for your opinion......

And Harry...you have nine or so years experience hunting to back up your opinions....talk to me when you've got another fifty or so under your belt....

Regards, Gramps

Like I said, their methods at least give a good idea of general trends......so do you guys want them to shut down the seasons until we get funding to do complete accounts??? May be waiting a while....a short doe season for whitetails has time and time again proven to be beneficial for the overall population...educate yourselves, there is multiple studies out there....oh right, whitetails in BC are different ok....