Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?

[Wild one]

We kill an average of 1157 antlerless whitetails per year in 8. And our population is thriving, with some stomper bucks being taken and harvest of both bucks and does increasing. Counts show populations stable to increasing. Grandby count was way up this year, 30 - 50% higher than the past 15 years. Christian Valley count in the middle of the busiest hunting area of the region, is bang on average and harvest continues to hoover right around 600-700 deer, same as it has for 15 years.

Hell, we kill as nearly as many does in the one MU of the Christian every year (280) as are killed in the entirety of region 3, yet you spew crocodile tears.

I get it that some people just don't like to see the other guy shoot a deer, but don't bullshit us about no deer left.

Maybe you're doing it wrong. Maybe you need to kill 1157 does per year too. It's sure working here.

The density and population are very different in comparison.

The habitat in a large portion of 3 is also very different as well. The factor in many of region 3 WT populations consist of fragmented populations

These reasons for starters are why your comparison is a poor one. These reasons are also valid for why applying the same management as 8 is an issue when it comes to management that is positive for WT populations


Now stop blowing smoke and just say “ I am FD and I support the management plan to lower WT numbers to lower predation on MD”

That is your only valid stance

[Wild one]

I don't recall this question has been asked or answered in this thread.
Much of the rhetoric here seems to be based on speculation....

What are the management plans, concerns and active practices in place for Whitetails for the various regions?
Are there actual reports from regional biologists as to what is going on and what they are doing?

Blanket WT management across BC with slight variations. If you go back in this thread you will find the management plan posted by FD

The goal is to reduce WT populations

[Fisher-Dude]

The density and population are very different in comparison.

The habitat in a large portion of 3 is also very different as well. The factor in many of region 3 WT populations consist of fragmented populations

These reasons for starters are why your comparison is a poor one. These reasons are also valid for why applying the same management as 8 is an issue when it comes to management that is positive for WT populations


Now stop blowing smoke and just say “ I am FD and I support the management plan to lower WT numbers to lower predation on MD”

That is your only valid stance

Actually, I support the plan to sustainably harvest whitetails with a stable population and solid opportunities for hunters to put some good protein in the freezer.

We could be doubling our antlerless harvest and still have populations growing.

People simply don't understand how prolific WT are. That's why we struggle with the knuckle draggers who want to pursue the failed strategy of stockpiling deer. It just doesn't work.

[Wild one]

Actually, I support the plan to sustainably harvest whitetails with a stable population and solid opportunities for hunters to put some good protein in the freezer.

We could be doubling our antlerless harvest and still have populations growing.

People simply don't understand how prolific WT are. That's why we struggle with the knuckle draggers who want to pursue the failed strategy of stockpiling deer. It just doesn't work.

So you no longer support the management plan you pushed multiple times in this thread?

You were also vocal on not supporting the change to 1 mule deer. So I assume you don’t support BCs 20% buck ratio either?

[blacklab]

We kill an average of 1157 antlerless whitetails per year in 8. And our population is thriving, with some stomper bucks being taken and harvest of both bucks and does increasing. Counts show populations stable to increasing. Grandby count was way up this year, 30 - 50% higher than the past 15 years. Christian Valley count in the middle of the busiest hunting area of the region, is bang on average and harvest continues to hoover right around 600-700 deer, same as it has for 15 years.

Hell, we kill as nearly as many does in the one MU of the Christian every year (280) as are killed in the entirety of region 3, yet you spew crocodile tears.

I get it that some people just don't like to see the other guy shoot a deer, but don't bullshit us about no deer left.

Maybe you're doing it wrong. Maybe you need to kill 1157 does per year too. It's sure working here.

You're starting with a population that is at least 5 times higher than region 3!!! Do the Math!
You would be happy (God knows why) if we killed 1157 does out of a population of 6000!
You would get your wish, the headline would read "WHITE TAIL DEER WIPED OUT IN REGION 3)!
Another BCWF success story!

[Fisher-Dude]

So you no longer support the management plan you pushed multiple times in this thread?

You were also vocal on not supporting the change to 1 mule deer. So I assume you don’t support BCs 20% buck ratio either?

I told you what the effect of WT and mule deer sharing range and having a high cat population was. That still holds true. But we'll never be permitted to manage to the letter of that science with so many loud social engineers battering on our decision makers. So, the best we can do is encourage people to hunt WT and support seasons that at least help to keep WT in check.

I support managing mule deer within conservation targets, and I support getting there by not allowing our WT populations to skyrocket, and by doing large scale habitat treatments.

Managers have already told us that the change to 1 mule deer won't grow the MD population, so I don't support the change because it won't help anything. I'm not a fan of changing regs that are feel-good only changes, like closing grizzly bears made NDP supporters feel good but won't help grizzly bears.

I've tried to help mule deer with proposals for more liberal cat seasons, but there's no appetite for that among decision makers nor the houndsmen.

Of the 3 things that help mule deer (habitat, controlling WT, and keeping cats at bay), the most important is habitat, and the other 2 aren't effective if the habitat isn't looked after. I've found that I can get results

[Fisher-Dude]

You're starting with a population that is at least 5 times higher than region 3!!! Do the Math!
You would be happy (God knows why) if we killed 1157 does out of a population of 6000!
You would get your wish, the headline would read "WHITE TAIL DEER WIPED OUT IN REGION 3)!
Another BCWF success story!

You can kill 13% of your WT does through hunting and still have a stable population (predation and mortality from other causes are additive to the hunting harvest calculation %).

You have 4800 WT does in region 3. (80% of 6000)

So, you could kill 625 does a year without affecting stability, which is twice what are being taken now.

But you'd probably burst a vein if that were to happen - imagine all those guys from Vancouver swarming your hunting spots. That would be a catastrophe for you.

[butcher]

So what's the key element in managing MD habitat? Conserving Winter range?

[Fisher-Dude]

I don't recall this question has been asked or answered in this thread.
Much of the rhetoric here seems to be based on speculation....

What are the management plans, concerns and active practices in place for Whitetails for the various regions?
Are there actual reports from regional biologists as to what is going on and what they are doing?

The bios do counts here annually that monitor the larger population pockets. They analyze harvest stats and butcher records for trends. They set seasons to maintain sex ratios that are within conservation targets.

The bios also assess the results of harvest with reports like this one: http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife...rov_review.pdf

As far as management plans, no one really addresses how many WT deer they want on the landscape.

Oh, there are bitchers in this thread who insist that we should flood the planet with whitetails, but they simply don't understand the effects on other ungulates. People think that we can have full buckets of moose, elk, MD, and WT all at peak levels through hunting regulations. That isn't the case.

See Manitoba moose experience with whitetails:

"Moose were more likely
to be found in areas with high logging (>25%) and
recent forest fires (within the past 30 years),
indicating that moose respond favorably to habitat
disturbances. The presence of roads did not affect
the likelihood of moose presence; however moose
populations were negatively impacted by whitetailed
deer (Odocoileus virginianus). We used
model selection to determine the variables most
important for predicting the presence of moose in
GHA 26. The best model included the presence of
deer, logging, and forest fires. Among the variables
considered, deer presence had the highest relative
importance.

This study suggests that to increase
moose numbers, controlled burns and potential
logging areas should be considered as ways to
produce new habitat and plant growth for moose in
southern Manitoba. Managing the deer population
may also help control the effect of the deer brain
worm (Parelaphostrongylus tenuis) on the moose
population"

[Fisher-Dude]

So what's the key element in managing MD habitat? Conserving Winter range?

Burn it. NDT type 4 winter range should burn every 5 - 15 years. We snuffed out every winter range fire we could, then wondered where the deer are.

There is a growing appetite for WR treatments though, hopefully we can get more momentum for this. $$$ funding model, political buy-in, combine it with interface fire protection plans.