Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?

[Ourea]

I would shoot a dry doe if i seen one . but some of those fawns that come from twins and triplets in oct. still have spots . so what are you going to shoot a 50lb fawn or the mother .
i went and hunted in the yahk in oct.i am not a road hunter so i put on many miles . seen maybe 60 does and fawns could have shot some . but most were on the dead run . i kinda wondered how many doe`s and fawns were wounded by guys shooting at running deer .

^^^ another example of not hunting WT effectively then making assumptions (no disrespect intended).
Another hunter could have approached the same area(s) differently.
Sit.

Walking around trying to fool a WT's radar......you lose 9 out of 10 times....and I am being kind with the 9 out of 10 assessment since we can toss lead at does. I don't hunt the Kootenays but hear such conflicting experiences.

A contact of mine was sharing his 80 yr old dad's latest Kootenay hunt. That batch of cronies were 5 for 5 yet some that hunted the same area are outspoken over the lack of deer. Somewhere there is a consensus.

[Wild one]

Wild One I guess you are not getting the info you asked for. I wonder why? Lol.

Because he does not have it lol

I did however get a factor through PM that could be why it might be improving mule deer numbers in some areas

being told the winter range is very poor in the area. So in a case like this removal of a portion of the WT (any ungulate species really)population could open up feed to other ungulates increasing nutrition to survive winter. This would not be a WT issue but instead the winter range is too poor for overall ungulate populations in the area. Basically trading one ungulate species for another with no overall increase in ungulate population.

So habitat issue this holds merit.

But if you look back to when the WT management plan was put into place it was to help limit predation( cougar mainly)on mule deer by lowering WT numbers. This theory is the epic fail and why this program failed in other areas attempted because the winter range was much stronger. The too much meat on the table theory is flawed.

Remember that too much meat on the table phrase FD it is yours and your reason for backing the management plan in the name of limiting predation

Under the premise of poor winter range trading part of one ungulate species to increase the level of winter nutrition to improve winter survival of another holds logic

To limit predation by removing a secondary prey species to limit predation on the primary prey species fail

Seems we maybe getting success for reasons outside of what the management theory intended. Sounds like a habitat issue not a WT issue and mule deer being the weaker species they are impacted most

FD don’t go claiming this is what the management plan intended read it and debated it with GG to death

[Fisher-Dude]

Read this.

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/z02-025

That's why.

[2chodi]

In 2016 it was estimated that there were 13298 white-tailed deer harvested in BC with approximately 8400 bucks and 4900 does.

Source Big Game Harvest stats 1976-2016

In 2016 it was estimated that there were 40, 606 white-tailed deer harvested in AB with approximately 22,275 bucks and 16,523 does and 1808 juveniles.

Source https://mywildalberta.ca/hunting/doc...st-May2017.pdf

Some MUs in AB have compulsory inspection for CWD.

[Wild one]

Read this.

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/z02-025

That's why.

Not even going to bother reading it and debating it AGAIN lmao

Evidence against this theory and history of failure of this style of management I am not going to bother lol

[bownut]

Region 8, which you are likely most interested in:

Kills/100 days 2010 - 2013 was:

4.70
4.91
4.71

Statistical average = 4.49

Kills/100 days 2014-2016 was:

4.12
5.01
4.14

Statistical average = 4.43

The first 3 years and the second 3 years of the season are only 1.3% different. That's proof that the season has NOT changed hunter success rates over the 6 years, nor does it indicate any population decline.

I know it's not what you were hoping to see, but perhaps you should rejoice in a sustainable, successful hunting opportunity for a change.

Your correct I was hoping to see it getting better. With all the flaws in our Harvest Data, and Population counts due to lack of funding, it leaves us to question how accurate it is.
With the increasing Wolf Population and lack of Habitat that we all can agree on, why doesn't the Harvest reflect it?
Math just does't seem to add up.
But hey where's my science, all I hear is how well it is out there. Everyone should take a close look at their tags.

Meat cutters in the Okanagan have told me the average weight is way down also, are we just hammering away at our stockers?
I don't know what to think anymore, 1.3% you say.

[Wild one]

In 2016 it was estimated that there were 13298 white-tailed deer harvested in BC with approximately 8400 bucks and 4900 does.

Source Big Game Harvest stats 1976-2016

In 2016 it was estimated that there were 40, 606 white-tailed deer harvested in AB with approximately 22,275 bucks and 16,523 does and 1808 juveniles.

Source https://mywildalberta.ca/hunting/doc...st-May2017.pdf

Some MUs in AB have compulsory inspection for CWD.

Yes familiar with all of this

Alberta WT populations are well beyond BCs and also a varied management system ranging from highly restrictive to extremely liberal. You are missing lots of info when using Alberta’s WT harvest as a comparison. Management for WT in Alberta is very population oriented

Look into the MUs in the 400s see how there managed and there WT populations.

Liberal WT harvest in strong WT population and doe harvest is a good thing. I am a supporter of it but liberal harvest opportunity on WT in low populations I am not

CWD management in eastern Alberta a lot of it is to limit populations at risk of CWD not because it’s present . Look into where it is actually present and documented cases

Nothing wrong with comparison from out side BC but apply it correctly population wise and show the varied management according to populations

[Wild one]

As for CWD you will also find mule deer are the ones that are at higher risk

Have even heard that is where it originated but have not looked into any evidence supporting it

[2chodi]

Yes familiar with all of this

Alberta WT populations are well beyond BCs and also a varied management system ranging from highly restrictive to extremely liberal. You are missing lots of info when using Alberta’s WT harvest as a comparison. Management for WT in Alberta is very population oriented

Look into the MUs in the 400s see how there managed and there WT populations.

Yes the data in the tables provided by AB shows this. Interesting that the doe harvest ratio in both provinces if very close.

[2chodi]

As for CWD you will also find mule deer are the ones that are at higher risk

Have even heard that is where it originated but have not looked into any evidence supporting it

Yes, Cait Nelson, BCs wildlife health biologist, in her CWD presentation indicated that there is evidence that mule deer bucks are at higher risk.

US government info indicates that you are correct re the origins https://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_in..._questions.jsp