Mule Deer Restrictions

[bownut]

COs aren't wildlife biologists.

You are correct, they just assume the role to patrol the Water Land and Air infractions. They have know clue to what is going on out there.
The under funded Bios have a good hold on the future. so lets go with that for now.
Add the fact that Opportunity overrides Science and it's all good.

[338win mag]

I know all too well about the wolves, all I was trying to say is if Regs need to change so be it. It's the fear of never getting a season back that drives me nuts. The History of these changes can be seen in the link.
Getting over this fear will result a common ground for all stakeholders. If not the division will continue. Thats it thats all.

As far as a Portfolio for Success goes, it going to take some give and take for starters. Until the funding starts rolling in , Conservative Thinking is all we have.
If not extreme changes will be the future, and nobody wants that.

Start with helping the reduce the effect of the drivers and move toward a better management system, the topic has been beaten to death on the site so do we really need to go there.

Penticton Castanet spoke about the Reg. Changes tonight, Title was Wildlife Declines. Funny how some guys still want to claim the numbers are OK, wheres the debate there.

Habitat, Predation, Access, Tactics, Seasons, Forestry Practices, Ect. all take a bite. Thats for sure.

You are right on here^^^^ so why not explore how we can repair/fix/change some of these other factors before we limit resident hunters?
See bownut, when you speak of "never getting a season back" or seasons being reinstated after all is well....Yes that is a practical and logical idea, but if we consider who is in government at the time dont you think we might have abit of a problem getting something back?
or ....lets not forget about the anti-hunting community....you know the ones who lay their plans deep, as we have seen not only here in BC/Canada/USA.

I wonder how we are going to get any seasons back if something isn't done about the aforementioned issues, ....or who is going to take the baton in 5-10-20 years to get a "season back" in the meantime the anti's simply wait and chip away.
Its been mentioned about hunter recruitment...are we going to stress an entire generation of youth and mentors because a government cant get their **** together?
Honestly, this is the most blatant case of bungling government policy that could be imagined, no way should resident hunters be taking this lying down.

[Fisher-Dude]

Some people are anti-youth recruitment because they don't want a kid to shoot "their" deer.

We've tumbled down that rabbit hole before on this forum. There's no bottom to it.

[LBM]

Some people are anti-youth recruitment because they don't want a kid to shoot "their" deer.

We've tumbled down that rabbit hole before on this forum. There's no bottom to it.

And some are because there unwilling to give there tag for a junior hunter, because they have to kill it them selves.

[HarryToolips]

I don't see where one can "listen to" it, I did follow the link.
Closing the season for 5 years, and the "most hunters agree with that"???...really!, where does someone get the right to speak for others on that opinion?
I don't know what the Bios "findings on Mulie #'s are", but if they are low, then I agree, we need to be more "conservative" with hunting them right now, and going to 1 buck annually is fine by me, as long as "all the regions stay open like R3, and it goes to any buck", that way the meat guys get to harvest their needs, and the guys looking for that mature buck, can go on as they always do, but opening to the same dates, allows thing to be "spread out once again.
But, I do understand how some have concerns with the change, meaning, if and when things get better, will opportunities be opened up again?? OR, is it going to be a struggle to change the change back again??
I think something everyone, and I mean. everyone who hunts, better realize that we may have been managing under the "Science" in the past, and from surveys, BUT, we all have to ask ourselves this now?...
Are we going to see things go to a "Public Opinion/ Emotional Based Management" for the future??
That's when I see some here being very "worried" about lowering harvest levels right now.
There is nothing "Protecting Us" from this new approach that seems to be coming our way.
These same people are worried we may never get it back again, and that's a valid point to consider.
Hunters, most of us, are "conservationist", meaning, we want levels to be at a "harvestable level" and if restrictions are required, we all are for it.
But, what type of "Conservation Management is going to be used in the future"????
That's what I am not so sure about?, and especially if you are of the opinion that "predators,not hunting" has created these low ungulate #'s, and yet we have a government who refuses to "manage accordingly due to public opinion".
Managing according to Public Opinion should scare us all, as I think that is where we are headed, unless we get something changes in Legislation to protect us from that, and if we don't, we may just see these changes as totally ineffective in the future when it comes to managing wildlife, and thus our own opportunities.
We want to do the right thing right now as hunters to bring Mulie #'s back up, but, will we be given that same respect when/if they do climb again.....do we see higher bag limits then????

Well said....and imo, those that want the government to have a knee-jerk reaction and just shut the season down completely for 5 years are being idiotic.....there are a lot more factors out there contributing to a mule deer decline than hunting....in my observations I'm not seeing terrible mule deer numbers, I'm seeing them in parts of region 4 in the last couple of years where I never used to see them 6 or 7 years ago..I am a little concerned about the buck:doe ratio in some areas but that's just what I'm seeing, because to counter that I'm seeing good juvenile recruitment lately...I think the provincial bag limit of one will be fine and will help, and one of the biggest positive impacts toward sustainable mule deer hunting for the future that we can make I believe is more spur road FSR deactivation..

[brownmancheng]

And some are because there unwilling to give there tag for a junior hunter, because they have to kill it them selves.

when I said it I was referring to youth in part. but I do think most guys would be more willing to give to a kid or relation. But there are also initiation licenses where you can allow an adult try hunting definitely going to be a tough sell to drag a newbie around on their one deer.

[steel_ram]

And some are because there unwilling to give there tag for a junior hunter, because they have to kill it them selves.

Yup. So many have forgotten why they are out there. Pulling the trigger is just a small part of a hunt. Let the kid do it.

[bownut]

You are right on here^^^^ so why not explore how we can repair/fix/change some of these other factors before we limit resident hunters?
See bownut, when you speak of "never getting a season back" or seasons being reinstated after all is well....Yes that is a practical and logical idea, but if we consider who is in government at the time dont you think we might have abit of a problem getting something back?
or ....lets not forget about the anti-hunting community....you know the ones who lay their plans deep, as we have seen not only here in BC/Canada/USA.

I wonder how we are going to get any seasons back if something isn't done about the aforementioned issues, ....or who is going to take the baton in 5-10-20 years to get a "season back" in the meantime the anti's simply wait and chip away.
Its been mentioned about hunter recruitment...are we going to stress an entire generation of youth and mentors because a government cant get their **** together?
Honestly, this is the most blatant case of bungling government policy that could be imagined, no way should resident hunters be taking this lying down.

I agree , if we hold any hope for any Government support for Wildlife, we will be in it for the long term. Time to expose the facts and hit them from every Organization big and small. Look at the power
that a downtown Vancouver Coffee Shop had on Wildlife decisions.

Recruitment and Opportunity should have never been grouped together, all this has created is a group of weak half hearted youth hunters. Forming special season was a short term fix IMO.
There was never a build up, no carrot hanging out there, no "I can't wait". I have seen many youths loose interest quickly and the parents gave up on them. Matter of fact I see a stronger Youth Hunter Base come from Junior Shooting, and 3D Bowhunting. Kids that carried it to adult ages.
Just my view on it.

Mentors?
Is it the Mentors that are lacking or is it the interested students?

Your are so correct on taking it laying down. Antis would love it that way.

[HarryToolips]

Hey heres a idea:
Take some time and look through the old Regs. and see how the seasons have changed and ask yourself "if you give it up ,will you get it back?".
If sustainable then it's justified, if not it's time for change.
There has been a steady increases in some areas to the point of questioning sustainability, thats when we as Hunter/Conservationist need to
back it up.

As long as the Statements on how Hunter Harvest/ Regs.has little effect on game populations continues, there's going to be a debate.
There will always be the thinking that restrictions didn't work if we don't look at all the others drivers that may have challenged the outcome.

The fear of loosing our hunting population will happen just as fast with or without restrictions. Everyones hates TAG SOUP.
I posted a Antler Restriction Video that is working in two States as we speak and was met with a old study that is still used today in BC.
Talk about moving forward!

Old Regs.
Click On:
http://a100.gov.bc.ca/appsdata/acat/...a6df6c2851.pdf

Antler Point Restrictions
Click On:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onwp1LmAGNY

Thanks for posting that, good info.....look at the liberal mule deer hunting seasons in region 4 back then, and people want to blame these declines on hunters??? Who can argue that it isn't the whitetail, they will keep your pred numbers high which will in turn - you've heard it all before...

[blacklab]

COs aren't wildlife biologists.

So don't ever listen to them.
How would they know what's happening, by being in the field all year and talking to hunters and checking what is being taken.
Better to read one of FD's studies instead.