Lots Of Wolf Talk eh ?

[proguide66]

Heard some interesting insite from an intelligent man last night who is very in tune with the game and natural cycle of the Squamish Valley.
He knew the numbers of moose well and noted the wolf cycle highs and lows were around 8 years ( same time duration I worked them over the first time ( 8 ish ago). He said the moose would go down 30% , wolves would cycle out and leave. Moose came back up, wolves went up and so on.
He noted as well the packs would have around two pups maybe three. Since the introduction of the elk he noted the wolves stay, aren't cycling out and are being seen with 6 new pups a pack. He as well said the moose and deer are Laing for it big time and steadily decreasing.
He figures there is around 10 packs in and out of the valley alone. He also said my findings up over the hill were accurate to fit in with the over spill of wolves from there as well the same timing of the rapid number growth.
SO, our conservation move is welcomed with open arms across the board.

He also agreed we need people going home with happy stories of hunting NOW to assist in creating new hunter and trapper interest.
SO, we getting things rolling way easier now !!
Be good to make hunting good again, get the finger pointing and fighting STOPPED now and create stronger numbers for all outdoors people !!
We can do this. It doesn't take a multi million $ study or a vote or political BS. It is what it is, we know the recipe for higher Ungulates, we know what causes low numbers and have for years.
We got this !!

[325]

Heard some interesting insite from an intelligent man last night who is very in tune with the game and natural cycle of the Squamish Valley.
He knew the numbers of moose well and noted the wolf cycle highs and lows were around 8 years ( same time duration I worked them over the first time ( 8 ish ago). He said the moose would go down 30% , wolves would cycle out and leave. Moose came back up, wolves went up and so on.
He noted as well the packs would have around two pups maybe three. Since the introduction of the elk he noted the wolves stay, aren't cycling out and are being seen with 6 new pups a pack. He as well said the moose and deer are Laing for it big time and steadily decreasing.
He figures there is around 10 packs in and out of the valley alone. He also said my findings up over the hill were accurate to fit in with the over spill of wolves from there as well the same timing of the rapid number growth.
SO, our conservation move is welcomed with open arms across the board.

He also agreed we need people going home with happy stories of hunting NOW to assist in creating new hunter and trapper interest.
SO, we getting things rolling way easier now !!
Be good to make hunting good again, get the finger pointing and fighting STOPPED now and create stronger numbers for all outdoors people !!
We can do this. It doesn't take a multi million $ study or a vote or political BS. It is what it is, we know the recipe for higher Ungulates, we know what causes low numbers and have for years.
We got this !!

I agree, ALL hunters are on the same team. We may not always agree on the finer details, but we all want healthy ungulate populations, and reasonable and the effective predator control.

My 11 year old son is starting to hunt with me, and this last fall in over one week of hunting, we saw only 4 does and 1 buck (whitetail). Wolves everywhere ( cats too..we need to address that too). My son was a trooper, but I couldn’t help but wonder how in the hell will he ever want to become a hunter, if days of seeing NOTHING are his experiences??!!

Even the winter range areas this year in my area are devoid of ungulates. No tracks except cats and wolves (what are they eating)??

I guess what I’m saying is that this movement has made me optimistic about the future of quality hunting for the first time in a few years. Finally, an average hunter can finally contribute to a worthy cause, and totally circumvent the apathy and idiocy of government. Good job!

[Ourea]

Again you and a couple others are the ones engaging with them yet you tell people not to. Interesting wonder what your motive is.
Wolves kill animals I think most realize that, and its usally not very pretty when it happens.
Anti or non hunting groups can post just as many photos of animals still alive with arrows hanging out of them
or jaws or legs shot off or simply just shot and left.
Why keep trying to make them mad or worse then it is. Let pro guide do his thing and see were that goes.

My motive?
Let those know who have engaged this site, that are here solely to fracture the hunting community, some of us see this shit plain as day. Sad part is most don't .

[Linksman313]

To the OP (PG66) - excellent post and welcome back!

What is the going price for a fully prepped and ready to wear wolf hide these days?
Helped uncles run trap lines for years in the Yukon, before I left hides were running approx. $400-$1400 depending on size and color.(all trap no shoot)
We did all of our own work and sold as finished products to both furrier and public.
If there are some of us on here who have the skills and knowledge to flesh/tan/prep these wolves fur that are taken by a trapper, could then the proceeds from sale of these furs finance the trappers work in the field to reduce wolf populations.
Anybody else with same said skills willing to make a go of this idea?
Links

[proguide66]

Now I have had some more time to chew on some new facts dropped on me, lots is making sense.
It's well known that wolves reproduce accordingly to the game population around them. Knowing this and knowing now the info dropped on me about the wolves reaction to introduced elk to the Squamish Valley, I believe there's something solid here.
The wolves are producing more off spring accordingly with ungulate populations BUT, I believe deer and moose may be easier to kill then elk. This would explain the drastic decline in deer and moose ( here anyway).
A side note, when I helped a guy with his island elk draw west of Seward, I noted I saw zero deer, 1 bear and piss loades of elk. SO, could it not make sense the wolves are reproducing accordingly with the elk herd BUT they are eating the easier to kill deer FIRST ??
I have a feeling THIS is what is going on as it makes total sense !!
Anyway, still, the ultimate recipe to more deer ( and moose) is definitely knocking back the current wolf pop as their reproductive system is reproducing according to the elk pop, NOT the deer. But the deer pop is paying for it.
Thoughts ??

[Bugle M In]

Now I have had some more time to chew on some new facts dropped on me, lots is making sense.
It's well known that wolves reproduce accordingly to the game population around them. Knowing this and knowing now the info dropped on me about the wolves reaction to introduced elk to the Squamish Valley, I believe there's something solid here.
The wolves are producing more off spring accordingly with ungulate populations BUT, I believe deer and moose may be easier to kill then elk. This would explain the drastic decline in deer and moose ( here anyway).
A side note, when I helped a guy with his island elk draw west of Seward, I noted I saw zero deer, 1 bear and piss loades of elk. SO, could it not make sense the wolves are reproducing accordingly with the elk herd BUT they are eating the easier to kill deer FIRST ??
I have a feeling THIS is what is going on as it makes total sense !!
Anyway, still, the ultimate recipe to more deer ( and moose) is definitely knocking back the current wolf pop as their reproductive system is reproducing according to the elk pop, NOT the deer. But the deer pop is paying for it.
Thoughts ??

Not going to be an authority here, but much of the wolf scat that I have seen in the EK, is either WT's and at other times is Elk.
I think the only reason WT is in the scat more often then not, is because there is more WT's around then Elk.
Even come the winter months, it seems some of the WT's are hanging around, where any of the remaining Elk seem to be moving out of the valley, and they aren't coming back come summer.
Maybe it just depends on each species size of population.
Like Yellowstone, lots of elk, so lots of wolves targeting them there.
Depending where here in the province, what the wolves target I think depends on #'s.
As for wolves following Elk, it's possible.
But, is it just a case of wolves just splitting up, and then seeking out "new territory".
Lots of room down around the LM for them to expand down into that's for sure.

[Ourea]

Wolves kill.
More wolves - more ungulates die.
Wolves will eat salmon when they are hungry enough.

More wolves makes for less critters.
Am I crazy or does this simple math not add up?

[358mag]

Wolves kill.
More wolves - more ungulates die.
Wolves will eat salmon when they are hungry enough.

More wolves makes for less critters.
Am I crazy or does this simple math not add up?

Yes but common sense isn't that common anymore

[trapman]

Yes PG 66 I understand what you are saying and believe you are right. Wolf numbers exploding deer and moose are vanishing yet elk numbers are rising. I believe moose and deer are more of a salutary animal,where elk are herd animals (safety in numbers) I have spent a little time in Alaska packing and guiding. Alaska takes their wolves problems a little more seriously than our government and has a much more proactive approach to the problems. I mostly guided moose and Brown bear,on one brown bear hunt we were met be a state biologist. He asked us how many sows we had seen with 2 or more cubs, I cant remember the number but it was very low. He told us that he was doing a wolf count study and one off the ways they determine wolf density was the number off 2 or more cubs per sow and that wolves were the number one killer of brown bear in Alaska.

[LBM]

[QUOTE=Bugle M In;1974633]Not going to be an authority here, but much of the wolf scat that I have seen in the EK, is either WT's and at other times is Elk.
I think the only reason WT is in the scat more often then not, is because there is more WT's around then Elk.
Even come the winter months, it seems some of the WT's are hanging around, where any of the remaining Elk seem to be moving out of the valley, and they aren't coming back come summer.
So how much time are you spending in the EK in the winter and summer months to observe what your saying. Just curious.
Maybe it just depends on each species size of population.
Like Yellowstone, lots of elk, so lots of wolves targeting them there.
Depending where here in the province, what the wolves target I think depends on #'s.
As for wolves following Elk, it's possible.
But, is it just a case of wolves just splitting up, and then seeking out "new territory".
Lots of room down around the LM for them to expand down into that's for sure.