Originally Posted by bearvalley
It seems every other post you make these days is to make some attack with some cheap shot. I think you need a vacation. See you in April.
Mmmm...Beer
It seems every other post you make these days is to make some attack with some cheap shot. I think you need a vacation. See you in April.
Last edited by Gateholio; 01-03-2018 at 12:23 PM.
Knowledgeable shooters agree- The 375 Ruger is the NEW KING of all 375 caliber cartridges. ALL HAIL THE NEW KING!
HuntingBC Champ
Sorry, I have to disagree....we do need some "mature stands".
I know you said something about "all those fires last some and you don't need anymore around your area"...
I believe you!
I think it was Dana, who saying something to the effect of..."take your choice...clogged up blow down, that he himself has trouble getting thru while walking/working...or a cut block and less risk of fires burning down his/yours/others homes"....(something like that..).
He has a point, and I can only imagine what it is like for people in the interior "now living in fear come summer"
The truth is, pine beetle was never existent in our forest 50 years ago, or anytime before that.
I think what we are seeing, is something we never really expected.
Yes, forestry Companies worried about their trees not staying green to harvest....but for the rest of us, there are much larger impacts resulting now.
Yup....it's hard to walk thru many areas were I hunt, do to blowdown, which was due to pine beetle, and I can only imagine that those areas have become "dead to wildlife", other then squirrels....actually I have seen areas that once had sign all over, like elk, for years, and now blowdown has put that to an end.
But, I don't agree with logging being the solution....
I do agree with FD, and the changes in practices since the mid 90's...and, in my opinion...they suck!.
I have seen so much logging in areas, yet, the deer #'s haven't changed....worse actually...but preds could be an issue as well??
I would agree with logging getting in around towns, to protect them, or to have some burns done around towns in the winter time. to also protect them come summer...but, funny thing is...I hear that many of the town's people were against this stuff...that they did not want to "breath in the particulates"....or have to leave town....
Well.....hows that working for them??????
Not much can be done to help people out in the middle of nowhere...IMO
And there is just too much beetle kill out there...way too much, and to "log it"....well hell...that's a lot of roads
all over the place....not something we need more of...IMO...if we are trying to "help wildlife".
Hate to say, but there should be a whole lot of back burning going on right now, in the winter, if that is even possible.
Does anyone see the government...any government...carrying that out??
I don't know when the best time is to do things like that....but I know it won't happen either..and it is unfortunate, but true, logging activities will probably increase, with more roads....
But, the fires, those uncontrollable ones are going to happen....like it or not, as the Companies don't like taking dead wood on their trucks....and there is a ton of it just laying around, or just waiting to fall over, to clog up more areas.
So, that why habitat restoration needs to happen....something natural, something all over the province, something NOW!
Banned
Sorry you think that way, as short as 50 years ago we had govt. with balls that actually did what needed to be done. We need that kind back and nearly had it with Christy's govt but too many didn't like her business oriented caucus. Do you know how close we were to a predator control plan working when the provincial Liberals were voted out?"come up with a plan so that wildlife does not be used as a political toy in the future"
You are correct. That's exactly what we need, and it's what I'm trying to work on (but Jeezuz, it's a big task with a big learning curve and we're up against opponents who are very capable). Anyway, with the number of people working on that we'll get there.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if we can make conservation untouchable to politicians, that is, create an insulated funding model that they can't raid, with a front person they can't attack (someone akin to an Auditor General, who can say things the government doesn't want to hear without getting attacked on a partisan basis) we'll be able to create plans and objectives.
That's where the calls for social license come in. MLAs that I've talked to, when they give good advice about how to make progress, seem to be saying "get me social license to give you what you want and I'll do it; ask me to do something unpopular? Don't call me, I'll call you". We need to change the conversation, not worry so much about preaching to the choir and get as many of the Burnaby cat ladies as possible onside.
BTW, a lot of times stuff starts us in the face without us always recognizing it. You've brought it up and we should make sure everyone recognizes it, because it's something that people like Raincoast use to counter our argument. Wildlife should not be politicized. That's what we're seeing. So far we've described that as "not using science". They counter "Science can help you execute policy, but it can't tell you what policy should be. What policy should be is determined by public values [public opinion]"
I think we need to stop saying that we need science and start saying we need to get politics out of conservation.
gcreek:
Thanks for making me laugh so hard that I pissed my pants! We don't need public approval for predator reduction in a province that just cancelled the grizzly hunt on the basis of public opinion? We just need government to be quiet and effective? I absolutely want some of that free range organic Chilcotin weed that you've been smoking!
Political Correctness has gotten way to out of hand.
Banned
May I ask you a legitimate question in that " Are you a paid studier?"
One would think that after so many game animals have disappeared that the conclusion of predators eat meat might be reached.
Banned
The Pine Beetle has been here before. Many times. I don't think the whities were here to witness other than currently. The 30 year old blocks in this area look pretty nice as far as deer and moose habitat compared to what is finally being logged now.
Different Member
gcreek:
I'm glad you feel sorry for how I feel. Question is: am I wrong?
What was the justification for cancelling the grizzly hunt? It was public opinion. You can say public opinion doesn't matter, but the facts don't agree with you.
We almost had a predator control plan until the Liberals were voted out? Does voting them out fall roughly into the category of "public opinion"? Seems it matters.
Political correctness has gotten way out of hand? Would that political correctness be "public opinion"?
You can go ahead and keep pretending that the world is some way other than how it is, but don't shoot the messenger. Meantime, you're not coming up with an effective way to change anyone's minds.
As for "business oriented" caucus, you realize that one of BC's most successful businessmen is the guy behind the Grizzly Foundation, right? And that an effective business lobby group argues that making money off live animals is better than making money off dead ones. And that our own favorite guy, Mayor Moonbeam, was a successful businessman before going into politics?
Don't fool yourself that conservation or hunting rights fall neatly into right/left or business/anti-business categories. That's not the world we're living in.
Rob Chipman
"The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
"Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey
HuntingBC Champ
Best thought of the day!
Something we should always keep in mind, especially when the debates get heated!
HuntingBC Champ
Yup....sadly people don't realize that this is a natural cycle of a healthy forest and with our up bringing with Smokey the bear, fire suppression was in bedded in our minds.
HuntingBC Champ
"come up with a plan so that wildlife does not be used as a political toy in the future"
Too bad about bearvalley....anyways if there were an independant entity running the wildlife show here in BC I could handle regulation change for a short period of time based on the science agreed upon by the professionals. An independant entity would take the politics out of it, making me confident in their decision, ie: a lower bag limit for lets say a couple years then when its good times again increase the bag limit to where it was previously, or even more.
I'm afraid any changes now the way it is currently will result in decreased bag limits and lost opportunity for reasons that resident hunters didn't create, and those lost opportunities will never be re-instated.
Not sure what others think but I have a complete distrust of this and the previous governments motives in regards to wildlife management in this province.
HuntingBC Champ
The last large pine beetle outbreak was in the 1980's out in the chilcotin plateau. Luckily cold weather was on our side back then. Harvest method was large scale and aggressive.
This last epidemic was believed to have originated from the Twedsmuir park system and unfortunately it was the NDP in power at the time and while it was recommended to broadcast burn it to help control the spread, they opted to let nature take its course.
As the beetle ramped up and followed the mature pine, it was believed and proven that in 1999/2000 there were three beetle flights in one season in some locations. From there they spread like wildfire, plus it didn't help with industry shipping the beetle infested Trees to other forest districts willing to buy the wood.
Lets go go back to the late 1970's with the spruce beetle out in the Bowron valley watershed. Known as the Bowron lake clearcut would be BC's largest clearcut.
Douglas-fir, balsam (sub-alpine) and even ponderosa pine has its own beetle.
Sadly with the fast liquidation of pine over a very short time span we are going to have a relatively even aged stand with little or no old growth stands left, especially on the plateau. This is what we have to figure out, and yeah it's going to need to be studied as we go along through time.
In my neck of the woods, it's in our best interest to salvage to maximize the value of the wood rather than burn it and get nothing in return, but hey that's my opinion as my pay cheque and others in my town depends on it.
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