Moving Forward From the Ban

[finaddict]

Perhaps we need to take a page from the FN's playbook.....

step 1 - go shoot grizzly bear
step 2 - wait around to get arrested and charged for it
step 3 - make sure you have a good human rights lawyer allready on retainer
step 4 - mortgage your and your childrens life to be able to afford to fight it all the way to the supreme court

I know....sounds kind of stupid right? BUT.....are we not being discriminated against based on the color of our skin? The way around this in the past was we always had some sort of opportunity, but now the FN can go out and do something we can't participate in based on our race. What would happen if moose hunting was closed to everyone except white anglo saxon males??? How about no asians allowed for the spring bear hunt?How is this any different?

This is a racist policy and we are being discriminated against. Problem is the money it would take to sue the govt for discrimination.

Anyone even know how to file a human rights complaint?

Chris

Unfortunately while it is clearly a race- based separation of laws in this country, that is not how the supreme court of Canada sees it. The judgements over the past 30 years have been tied to the Constitution that Selfie-boy's arrogant old man rammed down our throats. Signed by all 10 provinces both territories and FN's , it is what they have as their guideline to base all decisions since then. It distinctly identifies Indians right to hunt and fish on their "traditional territories". the really sad part about the Constitution (other than the entire document) is the vagueness in which it was written. This was done on purpose to force the courts to determine how this would be played out across the country. With most of the justices having been appointed by the several Liberal governments of the previous 20 years before the Constitution, we had very liberal justices who translated the Constitution in a manner that very much favoured the Indians. So much so and with so many precedence that, for the most part, judges following had no choice but to uphold the judgements or the previous justices. The constitution started out with separating us based on race, and the courts have had no choice but uphold the Constitution as they have deciphered it.

It sucks, its raced based and it holds a very small minority in a position of first class citizens in the eyes of the law. But unless you are in some way able to persuade The Feds, 10 provinces, 3 territories and all the FN's to agree to amend it, this is the sad and sorry ways of the land that we are stuck with. For myself, I see no value in Confederation anymore and wish we in the West would start to consider seceding from it. Then re-write our own constitution that holds all people of all races creeds and colours equal in the eyes of the law with no favouritism based on race.

[cpwrestler]

Unfortunately the governments pander to the loud, alternate lifestyle groups. The numbers are already there. Check the Auditor General's report which the government ignored. Look at all the fisheries biologists who spoke up and were either dismissed or stifled by the Federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Antis make up statistics to support their position. Yesterday on Facebook an individual asserted that deaths from grizzly attacks in BC amount to 3 since 1850. A quick search and I found a scientific, peer reviewed study completed in 1999 by 2 researchers from the U of C that had hard and fast numbers that showed that there were 8 deaths between the years 1960 and 1997. We keep being portrayed as Neanderthals and murders and unfortunately the sensationalists prey on this image. I tell as many friends and people that will listen and they are totally unaware of the situation. They are oblivious to where their meat comes from and the conditions that domestic cattle and poultry are raised in. They think that killing something is barbaric until I point out that the meat that they are eating had to be killed as well, usually more inhumanely than anything a hunter would do. They become understanding when I explain but they then go about their lives. I think we need to speak out but not be surprised when we get resistance and criticism. Saying it with votes seemingly is the best recourse. As much as I hated the Liberals they at least were somewhat reasonable with respect to hunting. Not perfect but there is no point in revisiting those issues considering the challenges we now face.

Paralyzer you misunderstand me. I know the numbers are there. That's not the point. The point is that in addition to our friends and neighbours being exposed to the benefit that hunting provides through accessible community based initiatives, we need to win over the hearts and minds of the students, researchers, and academics who end up being responsible for crafting policy down the road.

They need to experience and participate in the positive contribution hunters make so that A: they come to our side, and B: we have a list of independent academic research that we can refer to as concrete evidence of our outsized contribution to wildlife research and conservation rather than the typical "hunters care more than anyone else." How much better does it sound to say "we care more than anyone else as evidenced by the XX studies bcwf members have contributed to as citizen scientists."

I like the idea of town halls with BCWF and local fish and game associations. This would be a great opportunity to identify the small, medium, and large opportunities for on-the-ground initiatives.

And I know this is probably a pipe dream but lets stay on topic for once. The thread is about ideas for moving forward, not complaining about battles we can't win (e.g. FN), what the competition is doing (anti's), or why we can't win.

[Hunter gatherer]

One way to improve our public image is for people to stop filming and using social media to display their hunting prowess. Read two news stories today ( cougar in Alberta deer on the island) which portrayed hunters in a bad light. There are lots of ways to improve our image but showing dead animals to the general public isn't one of them.

[Bugle M In]

Moving forward?????
Yup, opinions are needed....and sometimes opinions are up to debate...discussion...criticism...
All normal stuff when it comes to "trying to come up with some positive ideas...strategies"
But, .....not the way it's going right now....
I am really left with little to offer....which sounds like might be to somes "approval"??
If hunting was a "Right"...then the GBear hunt would never had been banned...
If it was a "Right"...we could fight the decision in court.
Don't get me wrong...I wish it was a Right.....but it isn't!....so don't go down the path that it will be a right,
just because you say so.
I do hope one of these threads does "Ignite into something positive".....
Looking forward to when we can all start working together....
You know..."Bouncing" some ideas off of each other....Not "Bashing" ideas of each other....
Still waiting for the real Fire to begin....

[AlexPdHJ]

As someone who grew up in an anti-gun non- hunting household I came to hunting later in life as an adult. The main thing I want to say is that non-hunters from the cities are the undecided voters in the anti-hunting vs. Hunters debate. We need to convince the average non-hunter that we are a better side to support than the anti-Hunting activist. So how do we do that?

First I think we need to identify two groups. One is who we can recruit to become hunters and the other is who we can get as allies, but who are unlikely to ever become hunters. Once we have these people and groups identified then we need a targeted strategy to get them on our side.

The first group, the people who may want to become hunters, need a targeted outreach. The two largest groups are foodies and organic food enthusiasts. With all the food shows on TV celebrating and fetishizing food, hunting for exotic meats is a logical next step for urban hipster hunters. That’s part of the reason I got into hunting. I can honestly say Gordon Ramsey and his show the F word played a role in my desire to learn to hunt. Also in this group of possible future hunters is firearm owners. People who love guns are a good group to tap for new hunters. There are tons of gun nuts who have never given hunting a second thought, but could become hunters with the right outreach. I am sure there are other people who fall into this group

The second group is those who are we can get on our side but are unlikely to hunt. That includes people who are your non-hunting friends and family. It could include outdoor groups who enjoy the back country. It could be any number of groups and people. I think we can use our advocacy for habitat and conservation to win a lot of this support.

Anyways, we need a plan and strategy to achieve goals. We won’t get what we want without more of the non-hunting public on our side.

[brownmancheng]

I'd like to see the BCWF and GOABC organize town hall meetings with the local F&G clubs so that we can start mapping out a strategy in each of our communities. I see it as vital that we focus on:

1. Our image.
2. Community engagement - speaking to the public and educating them on the principles of wildlife management and the role of science.
3. PR - through doing the above and undertaking conservation and habitat restoration projects.
4. Political engagement - we need to remind the politicians that we are a voice and a force to be reckoned with.

Start writing to the BCWF. They did town hall meetings when the allocation debate was in full force. I think this situation is way more important than allocation at this time.

Thanks for the reply.. I think this is a great idea to get all related clubs and organizations working together in a focused manner. BCWF I believe has a good public image but it's public presence needs to.be increased.
Couple of thoughts
-The previous town hall was poorly attended (in the lower mainland at least)
-Not much media or political coverage .

Some of my take aways from the town hall were

that BCWF needed to better at getting the word out or being more mainstream
ie. Twitter Facebook Instagram presence. and the creating of memes or graphics that portray their message and that can be easily shared

-town hall should have been webcast or uploaded to YouTube to reach greater audience

I also just visited the BCWF site and it still has their response to the NDPs initial announcement it was considering the GB ban. No update on the recent news.
They also have a petition at the bottom of page regarding asking the gov to invest in wildlife. This is a great petition but it only had 8000 votes. For an organization with 50000 members that is not acceptable.

These kinds of things need to be pushed like organizations like sumOFus or change.org with spam.mail going out daily and a heavy web presence.

I get the feeling BCWF although it has great intentions is a bit behind the times. I think they could really use a PR marketing company or individual to bring them into this millenia.

To do this we need money, we all spend a lot to go hunting we need to buck up here.

If anyone thinks this is a good starting place or has another idea let's hear it. I will put the first $500 in the pot to get started.....

[leadpillproductions]

Hunters need to stand together , even after the ban there still pissing matches on this site , Not hard to defeat hunters if we cant even get our shit together. Dam tree huggers can do it . All we do is fight amongst our own.

[nature girl]

It may sound kind of stupid but if we want all of B.C to see how many hunters here we have in B.C we should pick a day and wear camo. Tell your friends, co workers , family etc.
Could you imagine if you were a suit and type kind of guy normally or a lady in a dress that goes to work like that and then you show up in camo. Of course people are going to start talking and that is when you tell them yes you are a hunter and why etc. And why you think they shouldn't of closed the grizzly LEH.
I know at work I wear camo hoodies or my camo hunting jacket no big deal at work as they all know I hunt but its at lunch when I go out to lunch that is when I get the looks.
That was just my small idea.

[Iron Glove]

It may sound kind of stupid but if we want all of B.C to see how many hunters here we have in B.C we should pick a day and wear camo. Tell your friends, co workers , family etc.
Could you imagine if you were a suit and type kind of guy normally or a lady in a dress that goes to work like that and then you show up in camo. Of course people are going to start talking and that is when you tell them yes you are a hunter and why etc. And why you think they shouldn't of closed the grizzly LEH.
I know at work I wear camo hoodies or my camo hunting jacket no big deal at work as they all know I hunt but its at lunch when I go out to lunch that is when I get the looks.
That was just my small idea.

I'm a "suit" or at least was pre retirement and I was wearing camo in the office years ago.
At the time I was either the Company President and CEO or Managing Director / Partner so it was easy to do if I wanted to.
Would also wear a nice camo shirt to various meetings which raised a few queries.
All my staff knew I was a hunter as did most in the Industry, never a problem.
They all knew me, respected me and I was a relatively quiet, polite kinda guy, not the "image" that many had of hunters at the time.
Heck, I even discussed hunting with a Federal Court Judge during a settlement conference, he was a "Laurentian Elite" and I was a poor East Van Boy but we had a common interest.
I agree, wearing a bit of camo will often start a discussion and once you get them talking, you've got a chance.
Realistically, most non hunters do not oppose hunting, at worst they are ambivalent about it, we just have to make sure that those folks see hunters as their co-workers, neighbours and such.

[Wild one]

Funny how the “10%” seem to call all the shots ? Most of the “90%” don’t give a shit and won’t help.

This is what social media has caused. It gave a platform for the loud minority to speak and push their agenda. They can blanket their opinions and miss information all over the internet. This has helped them link with those who share their views and spread misinformation to those who will not take the time to research if it’s correct or not

When those who are opposed to the views being pushed against do not push back because they feel facts will protect them they are not heard

Then add in the majority that are not for or against that don’t get involved

This makes that minority seem like the majority because their voice is drowning out all others



Silence and lack of effort pushing back is where hunters will keep looking. If we don’t create a stronger voice the grizz hunt is just a start