Why is the WKBGTA proposing a bag limit of 1 elk or 1 moose not both in BC

[Ourea]

That's a big question!
I think we need to be funding more studies and listening to the biologists both here and in the states.
There are a lot of factors for major impacts on mule deer herds to look at.

Just throwing things out there..

We need to look closely at migration corridors and habitat fragmentation from forestry, roads, development and energy. How are these things and cutblocks effecting migrations?

Other studies in the U.S. are showing spring migration back to summer range, known as surfing the green wave, or following spring greenup has become less and less efficient with fewer days greenup and farther in between, leading to a weaker nutritional start to the summer. They are finding poorer forage quality and a decline in ability to track spring greenup.

We need to pinpoint the major factors that regulate population performance in BC. look at things like fat reserves, fat is survival and reproduction. How is this connected to the habitats they are using, quality and quantity of forage. Fat reserves and wintwr survival. How does this habitat quality and fat reserve effect fawn health and survival. What are the pregnancy rates? Recruitment?

Cause specific mortality studies on fawns.
One study area in Wyoming saw a high fetal rate with most does pregnant with twins and high recruitment with most does bringing back fawns, and the following year saw 99% fawn mortality with 56% death during the summer and 43% winter mortalities.
Then March of 2017 saw adult does with the lowest body fat they have ever seen along with a decrease in fetal development. Plus fawns born with lower body fat/weight are much more susceptible to predation.

How is development influencing ability to track spring greenup if they are avoiding development while still having high fidelity to their migration routes.

How is increasing cattle herds/competing white tail/elk on their range effecting forage quality/quantity?

Cause specific mortality studies will be huge.

It's shown deer and elk love aspen, especially for fawns. It plays a role in fawn survival. Aspen stands have been disappearing from a lot of ranges. How is spraying cutblocks with her baci de to kill off deciduous growth effecting this?

What are the resource limitations on nutrition, a primary factor for ungulate survival and reproduction in their habitats. Nutritions influence on fawn survival and recruitment. Predation, malnutrition and disease are huge factors for fawn/calf mortality. Now they are finding the likelyhood of survival is primarily determined by birth characteristics of the fawn/calf like birth weight date of birth and litter size <--- all determined by the nutritional condition of the mother, is she able to allocate enough resources to rear her young. Females in better nutritional condition give birth to more robust young. Poor nutritional condition leads to weaker offspring exposed to more predation and disease. HABITAT HABITAT Habitat.

Studies show some diets of mule deer herds on winter range consist almost entirely of mature (100+ year old) Douglas fir litter fall. How much mature Douglas fir has been logged in theses areas and replaced with pine?

More summer and winter range improvement initiatives. Habitat manipulations to boost nutrition for a population.

I think it would be interesting to see some more interaction between hunters and biologists funding projects and studies. Our tags and licenses need to be going into this no more gov BS. Something like a gofundme or Kickstarter model outlining exactly what the study is, cost of the study, materials and track how much has been raised and how much is left to go. I'm sure lots of hunters would be on board with that. Especially if seeing results.

Someone mentioned on here forestry industry funding more research, I'm not sure if or how much they currently put into it.

My question was baited LOL.
Most know what the concerns are that are shrinking wildlife.
Those in the know realize there is no plan.
More importantly.....there is no funding to fix it.

Having a plan to help wildlife, without a solid platform, that generates annual revenue (which is protected from Gov pick pocketing) is the solution.

Having a plan to deactivate roads, protect winter range from development, educate SOME FN more about being more conservation minded (the list is endless)....is useless without someone that can pay the bill.

Having a wildlife plan without funding is nothing more than a big ladder with no steps on said ladder.......

Funding model for Wildlife.
Some are working hard on this.

[Bugle M In]

My question was baited LOL.
Most know what the concerns are that are shrinking wildlife.
Those in the know realize there is no plan.
More importantly.....there is no funding to fix it.

Having a plan to help wildlife, without a solid platform, that generates annual revenue (which is protected from Gov pick pocketing) is the solution.

Having a plan to deactivate roads, protect winter range from development, educate SOME FN more about being more conservation minded (the list is endless)....is useless without someone that can pay the bill.

Having a wildlife plan without funding is nothing more than a big ladder with no steps on said ladder.......

Funding model for Wildlife.
Some are working hard on this.

That Folks...should be the "Slogan" right there!!!!
That is what is causing this.....without that what was said above...no one here is going to fix S**T!!!
And that's why throwing more "restrictions" on wont work.....
Find and Fix Funding, then Implement with "boots on the ground".....
No need for F***** Rod and Gun Club Meetings...why...too busy having fun hunting!

[Sirloin]

My question was baited LOL.
Most know what the concerns are that are shrinking wildlife.
Those in the know realize there is no plan.
More importantly.....there is no funding to fix it.

Having a plan to help wildlife, without a solid platform, that generates annual revenue (which is protected from Gov pick pocketing) is the solution.

Having a plan to deactivate roads, protect winter range from development, educate SOME FN more about being more conservation minded (the list is endless)....is useless without someone that can pay the bill.

Having a wildlife plan without funding is nothing more than a big ladder with no steps on said ladder.......

Funding model for Wildlife.
Some are working hard on this.

You got me

What's happening on the front lines of the funding model fight?

[Ourea]

You got me

What's happening on the front lines of the funding model fight?

Better question is how can hunters help.
How can none hunters help.
How can we make wildlife a priority.......collectively.

Answer-
A solid plan and funding.

[Fisher-Dude]

I just sat in at the Mule Deer Strategy Meeting at UBC two weeks ago and Goat guys guest speaker explained how the Summer Range Quality and a early Winter Start up play a huge roll in
the survival rate of the mule deer in the spring.
The respected Head Bio explained how a dry summer and a possible hard early winter could effect the population by up to 30%.
.
My question was "Would you then be looking at a more conservative season to follow", his reply was absolutely.
Try to back up a season in BC and you get all the stories on this site, even when the so called professionals are giving us the facts.
Where is the science? Oh hold on THERE IT IS!

Shockingly, you sat through the presentation and then came out still looking to hunting regulations as a panacea.

Through 99% of the presentation, this must have been you.

[Bugle M In]

You got me

What's happening on the front lines of the funding model fight?

Not much...I don't think.
There was talk about "all hunting license money" going back to, I think, Habitat Fund....all of it.
Similar to all Fresh Water Fishing Licenses Money going to the Freshwater Society for Projects/Restacking etc.
But, haven't heard what the NDP are doing, or if it will still happen.

I understand Rod N Gun Clubs frustrations with all the issues, just like the rest of us hunters here, and feeling
like there is little to no hope, of finding a fix to these ever increasing problems.
So, they do the little they feel is possible, where they still think they have some control, or better said, input,
which then always ends up being "this club supports these new restrictions" or this club " supports these
restriction proposals"...because, otherwise, there is nothing much to talk about or to do....
And no one wants to feel helpless, but, in the end, they aren't helping the situation.
If every Rod and Gun Club, just took what Ourea said above, and made it there discussion day in and day out,
and used that as the "only means of fixing the situation", and stopped trying to be "restriction police"...
Then we might start going in the right direction.
Every club, the same chat, the same voice, the same opinion thru out the province....the same opinion!!
Then we may get the ball rolling..
Then maybe someone like BCWF can also be more effective.
But, not with this club doing this and that one off saying something else....never going to get there that way.
Time for all the Chapters to have 1 leader, 1 voice.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You got me

What's happening on the front lines of the funding model fight?

The dedicated funding model recently received support in the budget for 2018.
This is a huge step forward since all parties agreed to this BEFORE the provincial election.

Moving forward in the right direction.

SSS

[Ourea]

Not much...I don't think.
There was talk about "all hunting license money" going back to, I think, Habitat Fund....all of it.
Similar to all Fresh Water Fishing Licenses Money going to the Freshwater Society for Projects/Restacking etc.
But, haven't heard what the NDP are doing, or if it will still happen.

I understand Rod N Gun Clubs frustrations with all the issues, just like the rest of us hunters here, and feeling
like there is little to no hope, of finding a fix to these ever increasing problems.
So, they do the little they feel is possible, where they still think they have some control, or better said, input,
which then always ends up being "this club supports these new restrictions" or this club " supports these
restriction proposals"...because, otherwise, there is nothing much to talk about or to do....
And no one wants to feel helpless, but, in the end, they aren't helping the situation.
If every Rod and Gun Club, just took what Ourea said above, and made it there discussion day in and day out,
and used that as the "only means of fixing the situation", and stopped trying to be "restriction police"...
Then we might start going in the right direction.
Every club, the same chat, the same voice, the same opinion thru out the province....the same opinion!!
Then we may get the ball rolling..
Then maybe someone like BCWF can also be more effective.
But, not with this club doing this and that one off saying something else....never going to get there that way.
Time for all the Chapters to have 1 leader, 1 voice.

Have faith.
There is a lot of ignorance and enthusiasm within the hunting community.
Despite that, progress is being made.

[Bugle M In]

Have faith.
There is a lot of ignorance and enthusiasm within the hunting community.
Despite that, progress is being made.

I hope so....
Obviously we care, even if some opinions are off base.....but, care we all do.
I'm just getting old, body is breaking down, and starting to think I will never see those "actual hey dey story" times.
Most of my real hunting began in the 80's (carrying my own rifle), and to be honest, having seen nothing
but one restriction after another, and it's 2017, and I really cant say it's helped????
The Gun Clubs are good....when people get together to aid with volunteers etc.....that's great...it is.
And I understand that each Region has it's own set of issues, and is worth discussion at times....to fine tune.
But, the guys who really are "in deep" with the situation, who probably have the best understanding,
all say the same thing.....Habitat....and you just don't get that with out "money".
The rally cry in every corner should be really simple.....
"Money for Habitat".....(keep repeating)

[bownut]

I felt that there were many good points brought to everyones attention, and I am not sure how long it took you to upload your caption but what ever floats your boat Pat.

Habitat loss should be front and center along with road density and proper monitoring of wildlife. Pushing for adequate funding is the only way to start the ball rolling.
Continued abuse of wildlife without any conservative thinking will not aid a thing, and if you think it will keep the hunter numbers up, good luck. Resident hunters are getting
tired of spending money on tag soup.

It is so amazing how not so long ago your little group had everyone believing that our wildlife populations were holding there own and then all of a sudden the cry for funding fires up.
The only ones who have there ears plugged are you guys, hunters have been telling the story for some time, but I think back then you called it Coffee Shop Talk.

If anyone should be accused of Data Mining, it's you guys, but carry on living the dream.