Why is the WKBGTA proposing a bag limit of 1 elk or 1 moose not both in BC

[Blainer]

I DONT work against the BC Resident hunting community by trying to take away their hunting opportunities.

Please point me towards the science that says closing a 6 point GOS elk season and opening a special GOS 6 point elk season for seniors only will increase overall elk populations. I'd love to see that.

Please point me towards the science that says an elk and a moose is just too much meat for a family. I'd love to see that.

Please point me towards the science that says mule deer meat during the rut is not fit for consumption, i'd LOVE to see that one.

These are not science based and we all know it.

Pointing out all the good they do is not an argument in defense of WKBGA putting forth recommendations to away every average hunters opportunities. It also doesn't give them special status deciding how to regulate the wildlife of BC held in the PUBLIC trust of ALL tax paying BC Residents.

I'm sure they do some wonderful things for conservation and good on them, but I tend to agree with your valid questions, this is Not science based in my mind. I generally only hunt Nov, but they have decided what is palatable meat?? How about twice the meat of a two point, hamburger, sausage and the best cuts steak.
Its a better harvest regarding conservation in my mind if it's an old warrior upon his final days.
its also called hunting, not cruise the roads for an easy spike or two point, although Im not passing judgement, do what is best for you, health, age, time all play a role.

[HarryToolips]

Thats GREAT! they are doing all that good conservation work, hope they continue to do more. I applaud them for it.

BUT

These particular regulation changes they are putting forth to our government, are nothing more than social agenda changes to further opportunities to harvest bigger animals, they do nothing for the population. They aren't science based and they aren't approaches that increase total populations.

Closing GOS elk for 6 point and opening a special GOS 6 point for seniors only? give me a break, that is not conservation that is purely a social agenda.

Closing mule deer during the rut because the "meat isn't good" is a total bs statement, it sounds like they want the rut closed so more guys and gals don't harvest the biggest bucks when they get silly during the rut.

These aren't based on sex ratios or known methods of increasing population. These are changes to stop your average hunter from getting a chance at harvesting mature animals.

Until we see the cows and does are not getting bred and not having fawns, we know these changes will do nothing for overall populations and destroy hunting opportunities for the average bc resident hunter.

HABITAT HABITAT HABITAT

I'm sure they are good people at the end of the day. From these particular demands they put forth, to me it seems like they have lost perspective in their pursuits to get their name in a book with bragging rights. They are doing so at the expense of every average hunters opportunities.

This is the truth....and I too applaud their work for conservation...but don't take away hunting rights of residents, as we know the cause of decline of ungulates in the WK are more preds and habitat related, not sex ratio related..

[J_T]

Brent, Yes there are 2 organizations - the other is Trail Wildlife Association. Ive been a member of both. They have different agendas, but the same core members that do most of the conservation work.

For instance, Rick F. is on both executives, has been instrumental transplantimg the goats, protecting & maintaining the winter range, game surveys, etc.. Not surprisingly, he's a hardcore hunter conistently shooting some of the oldest animals...

With the utmost respect, the difficulty for many that sit on committee know that Rick is on a personal agenda, that he is submitting recommendation without a lot of internal consultation and he's attempting to drive social agendas. When he was attending meetings, his agenda was divisive, and it affected the progress of good discussion.

[jacksondog]

WTF are you talking about? Are you saying that you dont support wildlife conservation?

Based on wildlife surveys that WKBGA has been doing for DECADES ungulate numbers are down & predator numbers are UP. WKBGA members do the surveys, help collar animals, maintain & feed animals on the winter range, transplanted the elk, goats IN THE AREA in the first place. They do more work FOR the game populations in the WK than anyone else. What have YOU done??? lol


Many guys in the WK are passionate about hunting, spend a ton of time in the mountains & are good enough hunters to be successful harvesting & eating big, mature bucks & bulls. I would think that's the ultimate wish for most hunters.

It is unfortunate that the game levels are so hurting, that the regs have to regress back to what they were a decade+ ago... BUT if that's the case, their recommendations make sense. Muleys ending Oct. 31 has NOTHING to do with rutted up meat. It's simply protecting their numbers when they are most vulnerable. It used to be Oct. 31st when I started hunting them... Same with 1 elk OR moose & elk LEH. It's a big cycle, with wolves now making the big difference. Help do something about it...





Sirloin - do you not understand the concept of wildlife conservation???

Hey Dean,I agree with most of what you are saying. The Elk numbers are way down and as much as people want to blame predators for the decline in numbers we know first hand that Bulls in WK were hammered in those first 4 to 5 years, local biologists and local CO's came up with a number of 400 bulls killed in the first year alone, that's a fact not something made up. This year Bull Elk success rate was dismal at best. Time to go back to LEH or shorten the GOS season.

I do agree with Sirloin on the closing of mule deer in November due to the meat tasting bad comment, come on seriously , what a ridiculous comment. I can buy closing the mule deer in November because the majority of the Mule Deer Buck harvest takes place in November and they believe closing the season on Oct-31st will build numbers, but they are making it sound like they are doing us a favor so we don't eat rutted up meat, I've never met an Italian sausage that can't hide the taste of a stinky old buck, my Avatar pic is proof of an old buck that I was more than happy to eat. Where in North America has any expert made the comment " shorten a season due to stinky meat". HAHAHA that comment still gets me.

Let's not forget that members of Trail Wildlife who are also part of WKBGTA very recently tried to close 3 of the most popular roads in our area because they claimed they spotted a rare bird, had no proof, no education about this but tried none the less, for anyone that was part of this there was some ugly town meetings on this and as a result this absurd closure has been put on the back burner so that Biologists can look further into it. Little off topic but I'm trying to show that for all the good our association does they do make some poor decision along the way.

I'm no longer a member of the Trail Wildlife because of the ugly mess they were apart of last year, and all though some of WKBGTA proposed changes are valid some of them are absurd, uneducated and to be honest not sure what they were thinking when the submitted them. I've been a member for 25 years and have never been invited to a meeting or know if they even take place, this will be my last year as a member.

Again Dean I agree with most of what your saying but you have to see some of what they have said is not accurate at all and is not based on science but personal ideas.

[Bugle M In]

I think the regulation proposal of one elk or one moose is one that I support..As it stands now in BC we can apply for every animal ..So we have many choices..From past recollections of abuse I have witnessed of a family having there wife purchase a hunting tag so the old man could shoot two moose or two elk ..Disgusting ..As for deer the limit of one doe and one buck was sufficent.Hunting I feel is like fishing ..10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish ..Hunters also tend to mirror similar results..With our game numbers falling due to 20 reasons we should be willing to support some pain for our support of Conservation ..How do the Americans change or manage their buck to doe ratios ...LEH..If we dont support some reductions in harvest we will get this poison pill rammed down our throats..There is middle ground but some on this Forum will fight tooth and nail against it ...Hopefully this is the start of some form of management as we have been lacking it for many years..I'm not endorsing the WKBGTA's proposals but the world is changing hopefully for the better...Dennis

Good comments there....yes, a small percentage of us hunters probably do take the "lions share of success" each year.
And I wonder if it some of these same ones who want to further limit others opportunities.
And then the comment about some using a family members tag.....so true it is sickening.
As for that though, that is not adding further restriction policies, but rather "more enforcement personal".
1 moose or 1 elk....okay I would bite....but like I have said, other policy restrictions that have shown to fail,
would need to be removed....I am just into adding further restrictions on top of failed ones.
It seems like every year, we as hunters are being pushed into tighter and tighter circles and are starting to trip
over ourselves, to the point where we blame each other for our lack of success....you know...dog eat dog scenario.
And then we sit here and wonder why in this area and that area, we don't see something overtime, when in
actuality, we are all forced to hunt an animal with one horn configuration, and restricted to only certain areas,
for a short time.
JT's comments seem to make the most sense, one person with a loud voice, setting an agenda for everyone else.

[Fisher-Dude]

WKBGA's proposed regulation changes ARE SCIENCE BASED, designed to conserve wildlife populations.

No they aren't.

They are social-based. And they will harm long term productivity of the deer and elk herds - that's the science.

[LBM]

Region 4 use to be a bag limit of 1 moose or 1 elk and should have stayed that way, I have no issue with it being changed back to that.

[canucks6]

Hey. As a long time west kootenay resident and someone who has put alot of animals in the freezer, I m beyond concerned. Sorry to say but things are to far gone. They opened everything up for a few years, there isnt the winter range to support large herds, the predator numbers are high, the last winter was rough, and the hunting pressure has been high. Things will come back eventually and no miracle regulation change is going to help. 10 years ago i never saw a wolf track, the last couple years more than anything else. Poor stupid mule deer don't have a chance.
I would say that I would do more fishing for the next few years but that is in the toilet also. So so sad. Most beautiful area in the world, with no animals or fish.

Science and social based hunters or fisherman are out there more than so called scientists. A degree and a pie chart don' mean sh*t in my world. Time in the bush and time on the lake speaks volumes.

U S draws tags and licenses for a non resident aren' that expensive anyways. Bc sucks.

We got one leader sucking a green d*ck and another sucking a native c*ck. What a joke. Trump doesn't look so bad.

[markomoose]

This is all hearsay.My cousins brothers uncle works for the Government blah blah blah.You guys watch when the new Synopsis comes out next year.Status quo!!I'll bet money on it?Very few changes .You guys do know who's running the shitshow in Victoria???

[HarryToolips]

Hey Dean,I agree with most of what you are saying. The Elk numbers are way down and as much as people want to blame predators for the decline in numbers we know first hand that Bulls in WK were hammered in those first 4 to 5 years, local biologists and local CO's came up with a number of 400 bulls killed in the first year alone, that's a fact not something made up. This year Bull Elk success rate was dismal at best. Time to go back to LEH or shorten the GOS season.

I do agree with Sirloin on the closing of mule deer in November due to the meat tasting bad comment, come on seriously , what a ridiculous comment. I can buy closing the mule deer in November because the majority of the Mule Deer Buck harvest takes place in November and they believe closing the season on Oct-31st will build numbers, but they are making it sound like they are doing us a favor so we don't eat rutted up meat, I've never met an Italian sausage that can't hide the taste of a stinky old buck, my Avatar pic is proof of an old buck that I was more than happy to eat. Where in North America has any expert made the comment " shorten a season due to stinky meat". HAHAHA that comment still gets me.

Let's not forget that members of Trail Wildlife who are also part of WKBGTA very recently tried to close 3 of the most popular roads in our area because they claimed they spotted a rare bird, had no proof, no education about this but tried none the less, for anyone that was part of this there was some ugly town meetings on this and as a result this absurd closure has been put on the back burner so that Biologists can look further into it. Little off topic but I'm trying to show that for all the good our association does they do make some poor decision along the way.

I'm no longer a member of the Trail Wildlife becauseverall of the ugly mess they were apart of last year, and all though some of WKBGTA proposed changes are valid some of them are absurd, uneducated and to be honest not sure what they were thinking when the submitted them. I've been a member for 25 years and have never been invited to a meeting or know if they even take place, this will be my last year as a member.

Again Dean I agree with most of what your saying but you have to see some of what they have said is not accurate at all and is not based on science but personal ideas.

Again, region 8 has the highest resident hunter density, the highest FSR density, and yet our elk herds are still increasing, and we have the same elk season as the WK (excluding the any bull bow only), I'm guessing the drop in elk numbers in the WK is not hunting related...it would make sense that when the initial GOS opened, the elk weren't used to the pressure and a bunch of bulls were taken, but was sperm supply the issue for the numbers overall decreasing? BTW, in a heavily pressured area of the WK this past season my partner and I got multiple bulls, mostly 6 pt +, on our t cam we had setup there...