Why is the WKBGTA proposing a bag limit of 1 elk or 1 moose not both in BC

[bownut]

Wheres the science? boy if we had a dollar for every time some uses that reply we would have enough funding to solve all our problems.
Take a look at what we have done to with our hunting seasons in the last 10 to 15 years all in the name of Recruitment and Hunting opportunity.
Increased bag limits, longer seasons, opening does, increasing the age definition for youths, very few road restrictions and so on.
Were these all science based decisions? How could they be when all we hear is that there isn't any money for proper data.
Time to start managing thing back to a conservative way of thinking for a while and sort out the drivers that we all know have caused the
declines that management is dealing with.
God forbid we have to give something up for a while in hopes that things can improve.

[Fisher-Dude]

It's quite laughable that some people want to ignore the fact that we used to have any bull moose, 3 point bull elk, whitetail and mule doe GOS, any buck from September to December, twice the number of hunters, and healthy game herds.

But hey, let's manage to zero by restricting game seasons down to a dribble and wonder why populations don't respond positively.

Reduce seasons again, reduce hunter numbers again, reduce money from hunting again, reduce political voice of hunters again, reduce relevance and importance of hunting again, watch game populations react negatively, and see what happens in the back rooms of the Legislature.

Can't believe that some are so blind to the outcome of their grand schemes.

[HighCountryBC]

It's quite laughable that some people want to ignore the fact that we used to have any bull moose, 3 point bull elk, whitetail and mule doe GOS, any buck from September to December, twice the number of hunters, and healthy game herds.

But hey, let's manage to zero by restricting game seasons down to a dribble and wonder why populations don't respond positively.

Reduce seasons again, reduce hunter numbers again, reduce money from hunting again, reduce political voice of hunters again, reduce relevance and importance of hunting again, watch game populations react negatively, and see what happens in the back rooms of the Legislature.

Can't believe that some are so blind to the outcome of their grand schemes.

There is something in the WK water. That’s for sure...

[bownut]

It's quite laughable that some people want to ignore the fact that we used to have any bull moose, 3 point bull elk, whitetail and mule doe GOS, any buck from September to December, twice the number of hunters, and healthy game herds.

But hey, let's manage to zero by restricting game seasons down to a dribble and wonder why populations don't respond positively.

Reduce seasons again, reduce hunter numbers again, reduce money from hunting again, reduce political voice of hunters again, reduce relevance and importance of hunting again, watch game populations react negatively, and see what happens in the back rooms of the Legislature.

Can't believe that some are so blind to the outcome of their grand schemes.

I think the key statement is Healthy Game Herds, so who is the blind one?
Laughable for sure.

[HappyJack]

It's quite laughable that some people want to ignore the fact that we used to have any bull moose, 3 point bull elk, whitetail and mule doe GOS, any buck from September to December, twice the number of hunters, and healthy game herds.

But hey, let's manage to zero by restricting game seasons down to a dribble and wonder why populations don't respond positively.

Reduce seasons again, reduce hunter numbers again, reduce money from hunting again, reduce political voice of hunters again, reduce relevance and importance of hunting again, watch game populations react negatively, and see what happens in the back rooms of the Legislature.

Can't believe that some are so blind to the outcome of their grand schemes.

Well said FD!!

[backcountry99]

It's quite laughable that some people want to ignore the fact that we used to have any bull moose, 3 point bull elk, whitetail and mule doe GOS, any buck from September to December, twice the number of hunters, and healthy game herds.

But hey, let's manage to zero by restricting game seasons down to a dribble and wonder why populations don't respond positively.

Reduce seasons again, reduce hunter numbers again, reduce money from hunting again, reduce political voice of hunters again, reduce relevance and importance of hunting again, watch game populations react negatively, and see what happens in the back rooms of the Legislature.

Can't believe that some are so blind to the outcome of their grand schemes.

i think your missing the point, there grand scheme is to eleviate some pressure on already repressed animal numbers. I fail to see how harvesting more animals in a predator rich environment will increase animal numbers but maybe you could enlighten me fd?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I think all of us support changes that will increase wildlife populations and increase male to female ratios where they are below target minimums.

The only differences we are seeing here is what changes will yield results.

SSS

[backcountry99]

I think all of us support changes that will increase wildlife populations and increase male to female ratios where they are below target minimums.

The only differences we are seeing here is what changes will yield results.

SSS

Exactly right

[Bugle M In]

I think some of you are missing FD's point...??
It's not that we don't know there is a lack of game.....they are down....everyone agrees, almost 100%...right?
And yes, it is hard to think that removing "restrictions" is of any benefit, especially when these #'s are down.
But, the fact that many of these restrictions have been in place for a "long, long time now", should be proof
enough to all of us, that most of these restrictions are "not helping".
So, I ask, why would imposing "more restrictions" help now???
What would make it different now?, why would the results change...now??
IF you look at it from FD's or my point, you may realize that the issues are not because hunters have been
"overharvesting" for the past 30 years, during this time of many of these restrictions.
Other factors have been the "real cause" for this decline.
We can debate whether it's Preds, and many have seen that the wolves have moved in to many of these areas, and
to our eyes and mind would tell us that this is the biggest change.
But point restriction won't fix that....will it folks?
Beetle Kill and Windfall as a result, which has "Clogged up" or literally destroyed "hang out areas" and "wallows, and
worse, "moving corridors", and to me, is another thing my eyes see.....a big big change from 30 years ago...big time!
Will more Road Closures help that problem????
Then the flooding that occurred, really took the dead trees, and boulders, and further clogged moving corridors".
Condos and Golf Courses, and whatever else have been built, that have been placed right on "prime wintering grounds".
Will limiting/restricting what you harvest change that???
Not one of these Restrictions will help "any of those problems"....how can it?....how, by placing those restrictions
will it help the above problems....directly????...it can't...it won't.
Like putting a bandage on a deep wound....it may look like it may help, but the truth is, it needs to be sutured.
And if you don't treat it properly....it festers....gets worse.
Seems just like what has happened, we keep telling ourselves these "band aids" will help...
instead, all we got is a "very sickly" habitat and ungulate population.
Time to treat with the "right medication" guys and gals.
If you folks really want it to be fixed......then stop fighting amongst ourselves in this community.
IF game numbers are down...well heck...so is hunter success.
Cars hits probably outnumber hunter's kills at this point in some areas.

Get together, stop beating yourselves up, work together, look at the big factors first, and have the Ministry and
your government address those....first!
And, if there needs to be some "fine tuning"...then you implement some "restrictions" if need be.
You may all be surprised at the results if thing were done right, and at how "few restrictions" we may all
end up with.
Then you can all hunt the way you want, based on personal preference.
You can choose "bow hunting", or "meat bucks/bulls" or go look for that "elusive wall hanger" and choose
whether you do it from "truck or on foot".
Useless band aids is all that this is.....and then for good measure, kick yourselves in the head continuously.
How is that going to help?

[steepNdeep]

I DONT work against the BC Resident hunting community by trying to take away their hunting opportunities.

Please point me towards the science that says closing a 6 point GOS elk season and opening a special GOS 6 point elk season for seniors only will increase overall elk populations. I'd love to see that.

Please point me towards the science that says an elk and a moose is just too much meat for a family. I'd love to see that.

Please point me towards the science that says mule deer meat during the rut is not fit for consumption, i'd LOVE to see that one.

These are not science based and we all know it.

Pointing out all the good they do is not an argument in defense of WKBGA putting forth recommendations to away every average hunters opportunities. It also doesn't give them special status deciding how to regulate the wildlife of BC held in the PUBLIC trust of ALL tax paying BC Residents.

SIGH... Here are some facts:

Please point me towards the science that says closing a 6 point GOS elk season and opening a special GOS 6 point elk season for seniors only will increase overall elk populations. I'd love to see that.

Seniors don't have time to wait for draws, have limited mobility & take few animals, so their impact would be minimal. I don't have a problem with this.

The fact that the herd was built on a closed GOS elk season is scientific evidence that it increased overall elk populations & can be verified by wildlife biologists. PROVEN.


Please point me towards the science that says an elk and a moose is just too much meat for a family. I'd love to see that.

I believe that most would agree that BC's open seasons with generous bag limits with for 3 deer, elk or moose, goats, sheep, birds, rabbits, fish, etc. are more than enough to feed any family. If relatives want more meat get them off the couch, licensed & out there helping.

With almost all of the WK on LEH for moose, their populations are not strong & I'm sure most would agree that it's fair to limit to 1 elk or moose. If people are not greedy or selfish and look at it from a conservation perspective, our bag limits are still more than fair with 1 elk or moose.


Please point me towards the science that says mule deer meat during the rut is not fit for consumption, i'd LOVE to see that one. These are not science based and we all know it.

Agreed - rut meat tasting bad is ridiculous. Where is that printed? I can't believe they would say that & it should be retracted if they did.

However, if mule deer populations are weak, limiting hunting pressure in November will help rebuild populations. It was done in the past & worked. FACT.


"I DONT"
It seems you type more than you hunt & have trouble finding a deer. It seems unlikely that you have ever taken an elk & moose in the same season...

A recurring joke... Did you hear about the keyboard hunter that admits he does not help with conservation, but thinks he knows better than the conservationists (that put in the $$$, time & energy to create the hunting opportunities) & the wildlife biologists. Welcome to the internet...


Pointing out all the good they do is not an argument in defense of WKBGA putting forth recommendations to away every average hunters opportunities. It also doesn't give them special status deciding how to regulate the wildlife of BC held in the PUBLIC trust of ALL tax paying BC Residents.

WKBGA members are the ones that transplanted, established & worked with CO's & wildlife biologists to create & manage a huntable elk herd & other species in WK. It is absolutely fair that they have input into their management.

I'm going hunting...