Why is the WKBGTA proposing a bag limit of 1 elk or 1 moose not both in BC

[Brambles]

1. Disagree. I would think it is very rare a hunter gets a moose and elk in one season. I have no problem with the odd hunter getting both animals. The meat won't go to waste!
2. Disagree. LEH system is broken and until a new system in place I can't support 6pt Leh hunt. I do support a shorter season though.
3. Completely disagree. Shot many big muleys that were rutted out and they were great to eat.

I do support shutting down wt doe season in WK and the leh cow season. Our predator numbers are at all time high and our ungulates are numbers are way down.

Who ever this guy is..
..
I Agree with him...

[jacksondog]

SIGH... Here are some facts:

Please point me towards the science that says closing a 6 point GOS elk season and opening a special GOS 6 point elk season for seniors only will increase overall elk populations. I'd love to see that.

Seniors don't have time to wait for draws, have limited mobility & take few animals, so their impact would be minimal. I don't have a problem with this.

The fact that the herd was built on a closed GOS elk season is scientific evidence that it increased overall elk populations & can be verified by wildlife biologists. PROVEN.


Please point me towards the science that says an elk and a moose is just too much meat for a family. I'd love to see that.

I believe that most would agree that BC's open seasons with generous bag limits with for 3 deer, elk or moose, goats, sheep, birds, rabbits, fish, etc. are more than enough to feed any family. If relatives want more meat get them off the couch, licensed & out there helping.

With almost all of the WK on LEH for moose, their populations are not strong & I'm sure most would agree that it's fair to limit to one elk or moose.

If people are not greedy or selfish and look at it from a conservation perspective, our bag limits are still more than fair with 1 elk or moose.


Please point me towards the science that says mule deer meat during the rut is not fit for consumption, i'd LOVE to see that one. These are not science based and we all know it.

Agreed - rut meat tasting bad is ridiculous. Where is that printed? I can't believe they would say that & it should be retracted if they did.

However, if mule deer populations are weak, limiting hunting pressure in November will help rebuild populations. It was done in the past & worked. FACT.


"I DONT"
It seems you type more than you hunt & have trouble finding a deer. It seems unlikely that you have ever taken an elk & moose in the same season...

A recurring joke... Did you hear about the keyboard hunter that admits he DO NOT HELP WITH CONSERVATION, but thinks he knows better than the conservationists that put in the $$$ time & energy to create the hunting opportunities & the wildlife biologists. Welcome to the internet...


Pointing out all the good they do is not an argument in defense of WKBGA putting forth recommendations to away every average hunters opportunities. It also doesn't give them special status deciding how to regulate the wildlife of BC held in the PUBLIC trust of ALL tax paying BC Residents.

WKBGA members are the ones that transplanted, established & worked with CO's & wildlife biologists to create & manage a huntable elk herd & other species in WK. It is absolutely fair that they have input into their management.

I'm going hunting...

HAHA good luck Dean.

[bownut]

I just sat in at the Mule Deer Strategy Meeting at UBC two weeks ago and Goat guys guest speaker explained how the Summer Range Quality and a early Winter Start up play a huge roll in
the survival rate of the mule deer in the spring.
The respected Head Bio explained how a dry summer and a possible hard early winter could effect the population by up to 30%.
.
My question was "Would you then be looking at a more conservative season to follow", his reply was absolutely.
Try to back up a season in BC and you get all the stories on this site, even when the so called professionals are giving us the facts.
Where is the science? Oh hold on THERE IT IS!

[Sirloin]

"I DONT"
It seems you type more than you hunt & have trouble finding a deer. It seems unlikely that you have ever taken an elk & moose in the same season...

A recurring joke... Did you hear about the keyboard hunter that admits he DO NOT HELP WITH CONSERVATION, but thinks he knows better than the conservationists that put in the $$$ time & energy to create the hunting opportunities & the wildlife biologists. Welcome to the internet...


Pointing out all the good they do is not an argument in defense of WKBGA putting forth recommendations to away every average hunters opportunities. It also doesn't give them special status deciding how to regulate the wildlife of BC held in the PUBLIC trust of ALL tax paying BC Residents.

WKBGA members are the ones that transplanted, established & worked with CO's & wildlife biologists to create & manage a huntable elk herd & other species in WK. It is absolutely fair that they have input into their management.

I'm going hunting...

Haha! Don't blow a gasket steepNdeep.

Shall we break out the WKBGTA measuring tapes and start measuring our D$%*S now?
I see where you get that trophy banquet competition mentality, and why you push further pointless regulations on the average bc resident hunter that do nothing to increase overall populations. Bad regulation on top of bad regulation will take away opportunity and only make a few bigger bucks and bulls here and there. You can shoot your big boy and strut your stuff at the annual trophy banquet while the overall populations continue to dwindle.

Fact is, if does and cows are still getting bread....and if fawns still aren't making it, habitat continues to degrade, predators continue to prey, the populations continue to shrink, even with your crappy regulation, the does and cows get bred all the same, and the overall population shrink all the same. Less seasons on bucks and bulls is going to do nothing substantial.

Be honest with the people. These are social agenda, cosmetic, surface level, do nothing regulations with the purpose of making a few extra big trophy bucks and bulls here and there to take to the banquet. which is why they want that extra seniors only season in place of a 6 point GOS

If the doe and cows aren't getting bred, if the sex ratios are way off, if the science is behind it I can get behind changes. But not this crap.

I'm going to go eat some of this 4 point muley steak
Good luck hunting steepndeep
(isn't this one of the seasons you wanted closed? close the rut? you should cut that out, for conservation. meat during the rut isn't good either, right)

[Sirloin]

Regulation affects age but not numbers.

Wake up folks.

That says it all.



Think stuff like this might affect populations some?

[Ourea]

That says it all.



Think stuff like this might affect populations some?

Habitat fragmentation is a HUGE factor affecting wildlife numbers.
Thats a given.
Handicapping hunting thru regulation will not fix the obvious.

Sirloin, you seem on it.
Whats your play.
How would you fix it.

[LBM]

That regulation was in place when elk were 3 point or better and moose were GOS any bull larger than a spike, with longer seasons too.

That regression to yesteryear's restrictions under today's 6 point elk and spike/fork moose seasons won't change harvest more than a rounding error on a decimal. It's unnecessary and not science-based.

A quick look at some of the regs from the 80s shows that the moose season is now longer, so your info is a bit wrong. The problem with a lot of your science based thoughts is it is all ready to late so other measures must be used. Should have been using your science based theroys 30 years ago instead of worrying about opportunity.

[Fisher-Dude]

A quick look at some of the regs from the 80s shows that the moose season is now longer, so your info is a bit wrong. The problem with a lot of your science based thoughts is it is all ready to late so other measures must be used. Should have been using your science based theroys 30 years ago instead of worrying about opportunity.

We should close cat hunting forever. Pursuit too.

You know, because it's too late.

You might want to look for allies in this fight with this government - do you think your cat hunting will survive Horgan's attack? You'd be drunk if you did.

Fact remains, the aggregate bag limit for elk and moose was established when GOS was liberal and long in the Kootenays, and when we had 174,000 hunters instead of 100,000 hunters.

FYI - 1980/81 regs for region 4 Kootenays:

Moose - Sep 10 - Oct 5 for moose with at least one branched antler. Some areas ran to Oct 31. Some areas had GOS cows in October, some areas were GOS bulls until Nov 20
Elk - Sep 10 - Oct 31 or Nov 5 for elk with at least 3 points on one antler
Bag limit - aggregate bag limit for elk and moose is one

http://a100.gov.bc.ca/appsdata/acat/...a6df6c2851.pdf

[Sirloin]

Habitat fragmentation is a HUGE factor affecting wildlife numbers.
Thats a given.
Handicapping hunting thru regulation will not fix the obvious.

Sirloin, you seem on it.
Whats your play.
How would you fix it.

That's a big question!
I think we need to be funding more studies and listening to the biologists both here and in the states.
There are a lot of factors for major impacts on mule deer herds to look at.

Just throwing things out there..

We need to look closely at migration corridors and habitat fragmentation from forestry, roads, development and energy. How are these things and cutblocks effecting migrations?

Other studies in the U.S. are showing spring migration back to summer range, known as surfing the green wave, or following spring greenup has become less and less efficient with fewer days greenup and farther in between, leading to a weaker nutritional start to the summer. They are finding poorer forage quality and a decline in ability to track spring greenup.

We need to pinpoint the major factors that regulate population performance in BC. look at things like fat reserves, fat is survival and reproduction. How is this connected to the habitats they are using, quality and quantity of forage. Fat reserves and wintwr survival. How does this habitat quality and fat reserve effect fawn health and survival. What are the pregnancy rates? Recruitment?

Cause specific mortality studies on fawns.
One study area in Wyoming saw a high fetal rate with most does pregnant with twins and high recruitment with most does bringing back fawns, and the following year saw 99% fawn mortality with 56% death during the summer and 43% winter mortalities.
Then March of 2017 saw adult does with the lowest body fat they have ever seen along with a decrease in fetal development. Plus fawns born with lower body fat/weight are much more susceptible to predation.

How is development influencing ability to track spring greenup if they are avoiding development while still having high fidelity to their migration routes.

How is increasing cattle herds/competing white tail/elk on their range effecting forage quality/quantity?

Cause specific mortality studies will be huge.

It's shown deer and elk love aspen, especially for fawns. It plays a role in fawn survival. Aspen stands have been disappearing from a lot of ranges. How is spraying cutblocks with her baci de to kill off deciduous growth effecting this?

What are the resource limitations on nutrition, a primary factor for ungulate survival and reproduction in their habitats. Nutritions influence on fawn survival and recruitment. Predation, malnutrition and disease are huge factors for fawn/calf mortality. Now they are finding the likelyhood of survival is primarily determined by birth characteristics of the fawn/calf like birth weight date of birth and litter size <--- all determined by the nutritional condition of the mother, is she able to allocate enough resources to rear her young. Females in better nutritional condition give birth to more robust young. Poor nutritional condition leads to weaker offspring exposed to more predation and disease. HABITAT HABITAT Habitat.

Studies show some diets of mule deer herds on winter range consist almost entirely of mature (100+ year old) Douglas fir litter fall. How much mature Douglas fir has been logged in theses areas and replaced with pine?

More summer and winter range improvement initiatives. Habitat manipulations to boost nutrition for a population.

I think it would be interesting to see some more interaction between hunters and biologists funding projects and studies. Our tags and licenses need to be going into this no more gov BS. Something like a gofundme or Kickstarter model outlining exactly what the study is, cost of the study, materials and track how much has been raised and how much is left to go. I'm sure lots of hunters would be on board with that. Especially if seeing results.

Someone mentioned on here forestry industry funding more research, I'm not sure if or how much they currently put into it.

[okas]

welcome to the USA , a as we follow behind them . I am wondering if the wild life got 25% of our tax dollar like our first nations if it would help thing