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Thread: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,518

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Throwaway View Post
    Not fighting with anyone. Just aware of the fact the the spaghetti bowl FSR and atv trail system is the number one issue affecting ungulate numbers negatively and predator (wolf) numbers positively. A little overgrowth growth would do a lot of good.
    Sorry...but...ATV's aren't the biggest issue for negative ungulate #'s.
    Over Access is an issue, but only 1 of many reasons.
    I hunt in vehicle closures using mountain bikes for 30+ years, and yet the #'s are dropping...not improving!
    I hunt mulies 99.5% on foot and away from raods, and don't use ORV's.
    ORV's have as much right to be out there as a truck...it's just they do a better job for less gas.
    Agree that ORV's should stick to FSR and spur roads, and not be able to go up "trails" etc, but I don't blame hunters,
    as many are created by dirt bike/snow mobile clubs.
    That being all said....some of you are missing the REAL ISSUE....
    Squabbling about if ATV' are good or bad....start a different thread.
    The issue is "FN", the stewards of our land, by claiming their aboriginal rights, get to access "these so-called
    sensitive zones" with "white mans vehicles"!!!.
    In other words, it proves that they are not concerned about wildlife....only themselves (as if we here don't already know it)
    This should wake everyone up!!!.....this is the new "new".
    This is only going to get worse for us resident hunters.
    We should start setting up "organized blockades" against FN, and block them from every getting off the highway.
    Maybe we should organize "protested hunting trips" with ATV's in road closured areas such as elephant hills.
    Then as we get charged, we can take it to the supreme court and state "Discrimination".
    Who knows, maybe we would have a case?!?

    Worst part that angers me.....
    Is the Elephant Hill Fire wasn't really called that when it began!
    It was the Aschcroft Trailer Reserve that started all this...and those pricks wasted hours before they called anyone in.
    It their fire....and we are flipping the bill and the ultimate price.
    So pissed right now, and proves what I have said for a long time...
    We as Resident Hunters in BC, have no real organization that represents us, and we sure as hell don't have a voice.

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    120

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    Good points. Not exactly how I'd make them but good none the less. I got a bit of a bias towards native issues. My maternal uncle has his status card. My mother and by proxy my brother and I didn't go that root because we're white as **** and didn't even meet a native person until we moved from Ontario. Sorry for hikacking. Occasionally I get baked and post vaguely relevant stuff.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Kamloops
    Posts
    1,721

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Oh ya...for sure....hike 3 miles up, because I have to leave the truck behind, only to find that
    "Tonto" has dropped a buck using his "aboriginal FORD"!
    ...and stolen all your stuff from your truck.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    14,699

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    WELL Written Bugle M In ! All your points are CORRECT ! jmo too RJ

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    North Shore
    Posts
    1,017

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugle M In View Post
    Sorry...but...ATV's aren't the biggest issue for negative ungulate #'s.
    Over Access is an issue, but only 1 of many reasons.
    I hunt in vehicle closures using mountain bikes for 30+ years, and yet the #'s are dropping...not improving!
    I hunt mulies 99.5% on foot and away from raods, and don't use ORV's.
    ORV's have as much right to be out there as a truck...it's just they do a better job for less gas.
    Agree that ORV's should stick to FSR and spur roads, and not be able to go up "trails" etc, but I don't blame hunters,
    as many are created by dirt bike/snow mobile clubs.
    That being all said....some of you are missing the REAL ISSUE....
    Squabbling about if ATV' are good or bad....start a different thread.
    The issue is "FN", the stewards of our land, by claiming their aboriginal rights, get to access "these so-called
    sensitive zones" with "white mans vehicles"!!!.
    In other words, it proves that they are not concerned about wildlife....only themselves (as if we here don't already know it)
    This should wake everyone up!!!.....this is the new "new".
    This is only going to get worse for us resident hunters.
    We should start setting up "organized blockades" against FN, and block them from every getting off the highway.
    Maybe we should organize "protested hunting trips" with ATV's in road closured areas such as elephant hills.
    Then as we get charged, we can take it to the supreme court and state "Discrimination".
    Who knows, maybe we would have a case?!?

    Worst part that angers me.....
    Is the Elephant Hill Fire wasn't really called that when it began!
    It was the Aschcroft Trailer Reserve that started all this...and those pricks wasted hours before they called anyone in.
    It their fire....and we are flipping the bill and the ultimate price.
    So pissed right now, and proves what I have said for a long time...
    We as Resident Hunters in BC, have no real organization that represents us, and we sure as hell don't have a voice.

    Aren't you too busy working, running a business and making sure certain payments are made to ...

    Look, we can bitch and complain as much as we want but the reality is GOABC and BCWF should be one and representing all our interests. This whole shit show should already be in courts funded by both. The reason why they keep winning (Government, FN) is because resident hunters are too busy squabbling over inconsequential bullshit and happy to get the crumbles from the table.

    One day we will wake up. Hope it won't be after I'm dead because I plan on enjoying the outdoors with my kids and coming grandchildren.
    Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it.

    Ayn Rand



  6. #76
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    2,431

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenomorph View Post

    One day we will wake up. Hope it won't be after I'm dead because I plan on enjoying the outdoors with my kids and coming grandchildren.
    Teach your kids the difference between right and wrong, and legal and illegal. Likewise, teach them the difference between a legal system, and a justice system.
    The only thing I like as much as trucks, is guns.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,518

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    True about working etc....
    I understand that we have other obligations, while FN have all the time, and now days have all the government support.
    Reality is, the FN don't really have to do much at all...just pick up the phone, and for some reason, it gets done they way they want....atleast in regards to hunting these days.
    I do think we need an Organization that really represents hunters here in BC.
    I have nothing against BCWF, and really do appreciate the members who put in a s*** load of their personal time, and I
    don't mean to throw it back in their face....
    But, after that GOABC/LEH fiasco, is was very apparent to me that BCWF doesn't really have a voice (IMO).
    The GOABC, has a voice, atleast when the Liberals were in, but they really are in place for the GO's and express their
    power for them, but not for directly for Residents.
    Yes, GOABC will fight the Grizz Ban, and if they succeed, we will win as a "byproduct" of that decision, but again, it was not directly related to the Resident Hunters Voice.
    And Society like BCSS, have nothing really to do with hunters (although it is hunters who donate money etc..and time),
    as they are in place to help sheep!...again...not resident hunters.
    Maybe the GOABC might wake up and realize they are on the way out sooner then the rest of us!!??
    Grizz 1st.....then what...goat...lets face it, long way to climb up to just eat shoe leather, and I know many of the outfitters
    in the EK rely on their goat hunts to keep tthem in business as elk hunt success is dwindling, but goat success is high, so bonuses are there for GO's.
    Then, as others said, those sheep hunts....they provide a pretty penny, and give the GO's some pocket money....
    are those sheep hunts next???
    Lets face it, the GO's and GOABC are on the "chopping block" real fast now, considering many of the hunts are classified
    "trophy" by many.
    I always thought that we and the FN and GOABC need to come together, but it's obvious, the FN want nothing to do with
    us Residents (well except for us laying down the money to transplant certain species in new areas so they can hunt them,
    and we are lucky to get 1 or 2 tags for the season etc).
    And the only reason is see to align with the GOABC is only because they "have a voice"....but....
    They are now on the wrong side of the track when it comes to hunting....for trophy more so then for providing food.
    So, do we want to align with them??just because they have a voice??
    FN could care less about us, as this new "restriction" shows they don't need us....they are getting it all.
    Funny how this keeps coming up....we look to BCWF for a voice.
    It's not that they don't want to be there for us....they do!....but they can't (not in a real political voice manner)
    Before the next election, we need to have something that represents us "hunters", so that we have an organization
    that has some political representation, to let these MLA's know that by slowly taking away hunting rights, they are
    removing us from their voting list.
    But in the end, I don't think they care....I think they can do without our vote. (kind of scary if you ask me)
    I have no clue how the BCWF is different from someone say like the NRA (except NRA has tons of money), and how
    they are able to "lobby" in the political forum...but there is a difference.
    Maybe the GOABC may want to "join us".....but that means giving up a lot that they wanted in the past if you ask me.
    Trophy hunting is on the chopping block....so, do you want to stand beside them, and appear that we Residents are
    exactly like that....???(just a question for thought)
    No matter how we look at this and sit here and argue amongst ourselves about whether quads should be here or there,
    or what the bag limits should be etc, and this and that, we are really not realizing the "landslide" that is sitting above us
    right now.
    And as some others have stated, it will be over before we know it....
    And in the end, us Residents, and us GO's, will be sitting their with our spotting scopes, watching FN driving around,
    hunting 24/7, using "OUR" inventions to carry on Their "Traditional Ways".
    I am about as ethical as they come out there in the field....
    But, if I lose my right to hunt, especially while someone else, because they are of a different color can, you can bet that
    I ain't standing for that.
    Maybe the BCWF has to become something else, a different organization, that all us Residents can pay into, and feel we have an organization with our voice and some power behind it.
    Maybe someone here can tell someone like me "what type of Organization do we need to have some say in the political
    arena"???
    Cause the ones we have right now are not "cutting it".
    But your right, it's not so easy when we all have to work to pay the bills and pay the taxes, (that ironically are handed out
    to the FN...to fight us in court etc), and find the time, and more so, the money, to get back "our rights"...or should I say..
    "equal rights"
    I am not asking to be giving anything more then the FN, but I won't except anything less as well....

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    North Shore
    Posts
    1,017

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Squamch View Post
    Teach your kids the difference between right and wrong, and legal and illegal. Likewise, teach them the difference between a legal system, and a justice system.
    Rome burnt while the snowflakes were debating ...are we going to allow ourselves to become snowflakes?
    Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it.

    Ayn Rand



  9. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,900

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirloin View Post
    Double standards? laws and policy based on identity?
    Better get used to it, get used to coming out on the losing end of it too.

    Our governments have gone full on social justice, equality of outcome over equality of opportunity type ideology.
    If you want to know why stuff like this happens, and is going to continue to happen and get much much worse, you must look at the way they now think. They now believe in the concept of equity, meaning everyone ends up with equal outcomes which requires identifying "oppressed groups" based on sex, skin color, religion and sexual identity and giving them special treatments based on their collective group identity. Guess which group comes out on bottom. In order to achieve equity(equal outcome) equal opportunity must be killed off completely, that concept is dead to them. This ideology requires, and will always give rise to an authoritarian state because it requires one, it requires a top down approach to enact. It will always result in massive loss of personal liberty, equality of opportunity as well as the erosion of genuine hierarchies of competency in a society (best person for the job not closest match to arbitrary gender and race quotas) put simply, it is cancer, it is a poisonous sickness in our government and it's especially dangerous because it's not an easy to identify threat to our freedoms. It all seems so virtuous and well meaning, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    GBA+
    Our governments are now running policy and funding decisions through their gender based analysis plus system, its a type of ranking system based on sex, race, religion and sexual identity. It is a social justice ladder of victim status, and the hunters majority demographic, is on the bottom.

    "Gender-based Analysis Plus (GBA+) is an analytical tool used to assess how diverse groups of women, men and gender-diverse people may experience policies, programs and initiatives. The “plus” in GBA+ acknowledges that GBA+ goes beyond biological (sex) and socio-cultural (gender) differences. We all have multiple identity factors that intersect to make us who we are; GBA+ also considers many other identity factors, like race, ethnicity, religion, age, and mental or physical disability."

    Yes, our government is now making policy decisions based on SEX, GENDER-IDENTITY, RACE and ETHNICITY....
    Different groups get different policy.

    "What is Gender-based Analysis Plus?Remember that GBA+ is a process for examining how various intersecting identity factors impact the effectiveness of government initiatives. It involves examining disaggregated data and research, and considering social, economic, and cultural conditions and norms. Using GBA+ means taking a gender- and diversity-sensitive approach to your work. Considering all intersecting identity factors as part of GBA+ – not only sex and gender – is a Government of Canada commitment. It can be applied no matter what your role and is relevant in every organization’s work. You may be surprised by what you learn!

    Here is short video clip off the government site explaining their difference between equality and equity. It's basically a dressed up version saying, we think some collective group identities deserve more special treatments over others, heres why!

    http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/gba-acs/cou...d02_02_01.html
    "Are we striving for equity or equality?
    We consider sex, gender and other identity factors such as race, ethnicity, religion, age, and mental or physical disability so that we can take actions to promote equality. Not considering these factors can lead to increased inequality. Furthermore, many are confused about the difference between equality and equity."

    "Policy developmentApplying GBA+ to policy development is important because women, men and gender-diverse people can experience the same issue differently, even in cases where, on the surface, it does not seem gendered, or to have varying impacts on diverse populations. GBA+ enhances policy development by guiding the gathering of information and analysis needed to inform the best decisions."


    Notice they list sex and gender as two separate things

    "SummaryBoth sex and gender can influence an individual’s experience of federal government policies, programs and initiatives.......
    In general, the differential impacts of an initiative will be more about gender (socially constructed roles and relationships) than sex (biological)"


    "A targeted example

    Sometimes, GBA+ reveals the need for an option that focuses on a particular intersectional group. In such cases, measures are taken to accommodate groups with a particular disadvantage, including a historical disadvantage. Measures may also be taken to prevent groups from being negatively impacted."

    "Over one-third of positions at PCO have been identified for mandatory GBA+ training, given their role in providing advice on policy, program and legislative initiatives. This training will also be mandatory for all PCO Executives (EX-01 – EX-05). Promotion and tracking of this training will be integrated with the employee performance management cycle. PCO has set a target to achieve and sustain a 90% rate of completion of this training by the end of September 2016."

    As far as I can tell, this GBA+ filter is being pushed as a mandatory step across government policy making and knowledge of this GBA+ is included in performance reviews. In case you don't believe me...that they are pushing this gender, race, religion, sexual identity hierarchy to apply to EVERYTHING, check out their examples of where they use it.

    "Illustrating the GBA+ process: Forest sector case studyProgress bar 1 of 8
    Let’s apply GBA+ to a case study in forestry, a sector where gender and diversity issues may not be initially apparent."


    Get used to it... if you want to guess how this would reflect on policy making for hunters, run our racial, sex, demographic of hunters through their identity politics, victimhood filter and see where we come out.
    Holly F*ck.
    Dude, we like to hunt....put meat in the freezer and feed our families with healthy organic protein.
    You and Jassmine need to stop cuddling so much,


    I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards and forums. - F L Wright


    Try and be kind to everyone but fear no one. - Ourea


  10. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,125

    Re: No ATV use in 3-28, 3-29 and 3-30

    ------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Sirloin; 10-17-2017 at 07:58 AM.

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