Alberta Bow Association Allocation Policy Survey

[guest]

Well said WBuffalo.
that said, personally, I'd like to see Canadian residents be included in some BCDraws, but, that said would like to see all, non native to Canada have to put big cash down and enter a draw, then have to hire prospected guide. Shite, if these guys can take any bull moose elk or ram or Billy away from us, they can dam well afford to apply first with big money down first.
In any case, residents be it BC Alberta Sask etc should ALWAYS come first. Critters should not be for corporate greed specially to GOs that are Foreighn owned, most of the big money leaves the province in this case, bet the take on a $50,000 dollar Ram..... Be interesting to see but I bet dam near 80% leaves our country, it's just taking from the resident, and just making Big Money Tom from Germany or Texas even richer. What a joke! Mind you, most of our politicians have a habit of selling off their own offspring to benefit their pension rather then the actual residents, or small family run GOs that have already been long time residents. No GOs in my opinion should be foriegn owned.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Well said WBuffalo.
that said, personally, I'd like to see Canadian residents be included in some BCDraws, but, that said would like to see all, non native to Canada and BC have to put big cash down and enter a draw, then have to hire prospected guide. Shite, if these guys can take any bull moose elk or ram or Billy away from us, they can dam well afford to apply first with big money down first.

So you would be ok with having to put big money down to enter a LEH draw then have to hire a guide if you were successful in being awarded the draw in Alberta? I'm thinking that most the BC hunters that presently put in for AB draws would not be happy if things went that way. I would also think most would not be happy if the rules for draws were the same in AB as they are in BC.

As far as the Alberta/BC thing is in regards to LEH draws there is no doubt that BC residents are presently getting the better deal. A BC resident can put in for any AB draw and all you need to do is have a hunter host to go hunting with.

A AB resident cannot put in for any BC LEH draw. With a hunter host an AB resident can hunt general seasons by just purchasing a tag but believe me they do pay for it although it is compatible when a BC resident goes to purchase tags in AB. $75 for the licence and $125 for a tag in the case of hunting Blacktails when I go back on the Island to hunt with my dad. Plus the hunter host fee.

"You can't have your cake and eat it too" doesn't seem to apply to BC residents in this case. You're getting both presently.

[guest]

No I said non native to Canada, yanks, and others round the world that pull a ram Billy or bull out from underneath you can come here ANY time at present and do just that...... And most the cash leaves here. Corporate greed. The hunting going to the rich, like Europe. Residents First always

didnt mean for the confusion

[Walking Buffalo]

To Noggin's OP

You brought up three of the survey's questions.

While ALL of the issues addressed were brought to the table by the Government for discussion, the individual issues certainly were highlighted by specific stakeholders.

1. Removal of NR from special licence hunts.

This was most likely brought up to the government by the Outfitters (APOS).

This was brought up before by APOS, concerns defending the change included eliminating any potential illegal guiding through the Hunter Host system, with a byproduct of increasing their potential market.

With APOS facing some loss of market under other recommendations, I suspect this was thrown in as a bone to pacify the outcry from APOS.

2. Archery Only Allocations with separate draws.

The ABA has been lobbying for this since before there were archery only draws.
The current president of the ABA told me personally that in his opinion, there are TOO MANY Bowhunters.
In an effort to eliminate "less serious" bowhunters and to reward "more serious" bowhunters, the concept of having an exclusive Archery allocation and draw is desired to have the effect of reducing the number of hunters that participate in the Archery season.

3. Landowner Licences.

Several years ago I personally was the first to obtain and publicly disseminated the number of Landowner Licences being issued.
Many heads were turned....

Keep in mind that the proposal applies ONLY to Antlered Mule Deer. Antlerless Mule Deer, Antlerless Elk and a few Antlered Elk Landowner Licences are not to be effected by this proposed change.

This program was destined for failure upon conception. There was no hard cap to the number of Landowner licences issued, and these licences were to come from the Resident allocation. In effect, when a management unit faced more restrictive Resident allocations, more landowners would apply for a Landowner licence, which made for fewer Resident licences, which made for more landowners applying for a Landowner licence.... by flawed policy to infinity...

Many management areas now have over 50% of Resident licences going to Landowners, and the problem is quickly getting worse.

There is an absolute need to change the Landowner licence program.

I have absolutley NO concern that eliminating or reducing (implementing a hard cap on % of licences issued) the Landowner Licence program will effect the public's access to hunt.
Many Landowners that receive these licences already DO NOT allow access.
Others do. These are the ones that may change their mind and effect a reduction in public access. Yet the number will be small as most of this group are of a mindset that they are fine with sharing, giving the public access, even if they have to wait their turn.

[IronNoggin]

If I'm not mistaken there would still be general archery tags but that in current draws there be separate rifle and bow draws/seasons rather than just one all weapon draw...

You're missing some of it. Their intent is to make any zone where archery gets close to 15% of harvest a draw for that species. General archery tags will NO LONGER APPLY in many WMU's, for many species as a consequence.
Back to the NR Canadian not being allowed to enter the draws...
You have now effectively excluded those NR Canadian archers from hunting that species in that zone.

BTW: NR Canadians are already excluded from archery antelope draws.

... This is a survey of recommended policy changes from AGPAC (Alberta Game Policy Advisory Group), a provincial consultation working group.

And as I noted, RE-WRITTEN (rather poorly btw) by the ABA. Not much of a leap to consider they did so to sway the answers towards their own agenda...

As far as the Alberta/BC thing is in regards to LEH draws there is no doubt that BC residents are presently getting the better deal. A BC resident can put in for any AB draw and all you need to do is have a hunter host to go hunting with.

This is true with regards to BC residents (actually any resident of Canada) being on the better end of things.
I do not know how to go about addressing such a matter here in BC.
That said, we often note that BC has the most generous General Seasons of any, and of course NR Canadians are free to hunt pretty well any of these with a hunter host. The same is not true (and becoming more restrictive each passing season) in Alberta. There the tendency has been, and continues to be towards ever increasing draw seasons rather than general. Tough one to consider...

Btw: BC residents cannot simply put in for "any" draw. There are already a handful set aside for Alberta Residents Only.

To Noggin's OP

Many Thanks for chiming in here WB! I was hoping you would!!

I was unaware of the APOS influence regarding eliminating NR Canadian access to draws. Thank you for clarifying that matter. I will have to revise the letter I am drafting to your Minister...

I have been aware of the ABA's position that there are too many bowhunters for some time now.
Strikes me as odd that they are now willing to throw those they supposedly represent under the bus in order to protect and preserve what they desire for themselves. Still smacks of greed and spite IMO.

I would also like to thank you for addressing the landowner tag issue. I have only heard from the landowner point of view, so obviously my understanding was biased. With what you note here, I too would be supportive of a cap (%) on those tags thus affected.

Again, Thank You for your informed input! I for one very much appreciate it.

Cheers,
Nog

[sheephunterab]

You're missing some of it. Their intent is to make any zone where archery gets close to 15% of harvest a draw for that species. General archery tags will NO LONGER APPLY in many WMU's, for many species as a consequence.

That's actually the government's intent...not the ABA's. Not sure what I'm missing here.

[sheephunterab]

I was unaware of the APOS influence regarding eliminating NR Canadian access to draws. Thank you for clarifying that matter. I will have to revise the letter I am drafting to your Minister...

I seriously doubt APOS is driving this change. The truth is that residents are getting fed up with ever increasing wait times in the draws and are looking for ways to relieve some of the pressure. No doubt APOS wouldn't oppose the change but they really wouldn't stand to gain a lot. Their Canadian clientele is very small.

[Walking Buffalo]

That's actually the government's intent...not the ABA's. Not sure what I'm missing here.

While the government brought these concerns to the table, as Only government submitted concerns were allowed to be discussed,
the concerns were mainly influenced by various public groups.
Without question the archery allocation and separate draw issue is only being addressed due to pressure from the ABA, which is fair.

I seriously doubt APOS is driving this change. The truth is that residents are getting fed up with ever increasing wait times in the draws and are looking for ways to relieve some of the pressure. No doubt APOS wouldn't oppose the change but they really wouldn't stand to gain a lot. Their Canadian clientele is very small.

Which is why I suggested that this is a bone, a dry bone that is basically just a pacifier.

APOS has pushed for the elimination of the Hunter Host system for years. It is not a big deal to them, but will make a good toothpick.

Who else would have made the call to eliminate NR from the draw? AFGA? ABA? If not APOS, where did this come from?
Did the government itself table a recommendation to eliminate NRs in the draw when no one was asking for it?

NR applications and licences in the draw system account for less than 2% of the total.
This change would not have any effect on the concern. It is a smokescreen.

[sheephunterab]

Walking Buff...you'd have to be deaf not to hear the outcry from resident hunters right now about increased wait times and the amount of non residents in the draw system. It's the same frustration driving the desire for change to landowner tags. Always fun to blame APOS though!

I agree the separate archery season is ABA but the 15% cap is not as I said above.

[Wild one]

I can understand doing away with non resident draws. Try to put non residents in the same draw pool here in BC and see the crying start