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Thread: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

  1. #61
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoatGuy View Post
    We've been spending time, money and energy fencing cattle out of Nature Conservancy and The Nature Trust properties in the Cariboo, Kootenay and the Okanagan due to over-grazing, riparian habitat destruction from over-grazing/cattle. The White Lake biodiversity ranch in the Okanagan is an exception and is the only 'graze' property I'm aware of that has received federal approval. The way it is managed is nothing like anything else we have going in BC.

    I don't think your first point is supported by reality.

    As said in moderation everything can work together. When there's no moderation, and range use plans aren't being followed the theory doesn't hold water. Right now on conservation properties in BC, we have some major issues with weeds/over-grazing/riparian area damage.
    Try the old Circle X Ranch at Tatlayoko, Try Pine Butte Ranch at Cranbrook. Try several properties in the flatlands. You should do more research for your $500 a day Jesse.

  2. #62
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Quote Originally Posted by gcreek View Post
    Try the old Circle X Ranch at Tatlayoko, Try Pine Butte Ranch at Cranbrook. Try several properties in the flatlands. You should do more research for your $500 a day Jesse.
    None of those have Federal endorsement - while grazing exists it's not "proven that wildlife will dissappear without grazing" as you assert.

    Unfortunately that is not what we are seeing in other conservation properties in BC. We are building cattle exclusion fences on a number of conservation properties & on crown land to mitigate the negative effects of cattle (and quads) on sensitive and over-grazed habitat.

    As said three times now, grazing in moderation works. Not an 'anti-cow' guy, just think we should stick to reality.

    As said we went through this exercise two years ago to find one example where grazing increased wildlife values/habitat. There was not one example provided- not one, and that issue traveled the province with habitat and range staff. The research we have indicates the opposite. There is significant concern from habitat ecologists around livestock/habitat and in particular mule deer interaction in BC. Some of the research sites have shown significant over-grazing, including deciduous shrubs (deer food) being grazed to 'ground zero' every summer.

    Finally, if grazing were such a positive net benefit land conservancy organizations would be purchasing properties while ensuring cattle grazing remains in perpituity. Most of the agreements are grand-fathered whereby once the current 'family' passes on the cows are removed, OR grazing is not permitted on these properties at all. There are always exceptions, but the "rule" is not to allow grazing on conservation lands over the long-term.

    This seems to be more of a beliefs based argument. Basing your argument on beliefs while ignoring the science doesn't really make for a compelling case.
    Last edited by GoatGuy; 09-27-2017 at 01:33 PM.
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

  3. #63
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post
    There are dozens of scientific articles stating the effects of fencing and habitat fragmentation.They are also traps contributing to predation. Focus on one problem create another.
    And yet we are doing it - weighing the trade-offs and choosing that the benefits of riparian/stream protection outweigh the economic and environmental costs of fencing. That should indicate the magnitude of the issue/concern.

    Most of these issues are site specific and due to a lack of adherence to range use plans.

    Anyways if you ever come up with some litt to support the earlier assertions please post. Always keen to learn.
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

  4. #64
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Quote Originally Posted by gcreek View Post
    I pay the govt. over $12,000 per year to use that grass. How much do you pay to leave ruts all over?
    Nobody gives 2 shits how much you pay. Still dont belong there.
    Originally Posted by olympia
    if your worried bout ticks than you aint never been bit by a snake while pissing...try gettin your hunting partner to suck the poison out

  5. #65
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Quote Originally Posted by 604redneck View Post
    Nobody gives 2 shits how much you pay. Still dont belong there.
    Popcorn reload time...
    "It's not the kill, but the thrill of the chase" - Deep Purple

    "Lord knows I'm a Voodoo chile" - SRV (RIP 8-27-90)

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  6. #66
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Quote Originally Posted by 604redneck View Post
    Nobody gives 2 shits how much you pay. Still dont belong there.

    Couldn't agree more, just a grumpy old rancher feeding from the trough.

    He is as entitled as they come.

  7. #67
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    If you want to farm cattle, buy some land and do it.
    I hope the government realizes how antiquated the current policies are and they kick all these free loading farmers off our land.

  8. #68
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Not so much in response to the OP but to the anti-cow sentiment. Perhaps you are overlooking the necessity of these cattle? There are a lot of people to feed in this province, it's not sustainable if all of them go hunting. Those cattle could get raised in feedlots I guess but people don't seem to like that either and it would mean a lot more land getting put into crops.
    Put another way, if each of those cows were taken off the range and replaced with another hunter (or two) do you think the hunting situation would be better?

  9. #69
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasWalker View Post
    If you want to farm cattle, buy some land and do it.
    I hope the government realizes how antiquated the current policies are and they kick all these free loading farmers off our land.
    What is the difference between him paying for grazing rights and a forester paying a stumpage fee? Both are using a resource of the province and paying the "fair market value". Sure, there should be more oversight on habitat destruction but the same can be said for forestry.

  10. #70
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    Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?

    Quote Originally Posted by rimfire View Post
    What is the difference between him paying for grazing rights and a forester paying a stumpage fee? Both are using a resource of the province and paying the "fair market value". Sure, there should be more oversight on habitat destruction but the same can be said for forestry.
    Agree on the approach.

    Economists probably wouldn't support the 'fair market value' concept. Generally speaking we are all subsidized in one way or another when it comes to public land.
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

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