Salmon open on the fraser!!!

[guest]

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html[/URL]

wow check out these openings posted by tubby for the Keepers of the Land ........ Unbelievable!

And DFO states our runs are in trouble .......DUH!....... I wonder why?

and for the 400 remaining Iconic Thompson a River Steelhead last year. Many of these openings followed by the Chum openings ....... Soon to be, outa just about wipe EM out, as this is the beginning of that run. Oh catch and release gill net works good.

I hope one your proud of yourselves, those making the biggest of the big decisions, and those raping it for all that's left.

Manage to ZERO, way to go!

[Pemby_mess]

Ok, sure, we can debate the adequacy of our actual fisheries management all we like (I'm thinking it's often poorly managed), but when discussing the multiple variables such as we are here, it's a good idea to understand what constitutes a manageable risk vs an unmanageable one and therefore: the greates threat to sustainable wild fish stocks.

FN food fishing is a manageable risk to the fishery (we may not think it's being managed appropriately, but it is indeed manageable with potential widespread benefits to the whole fishery I might add; whether or not those benefits are being fully realized).

The run sizes don't have a 1:1 ratio, 1:2, or even 1:10 as your above post suggests. As long as appropriate escapement targets are being met, appropriately managed commercial and FN fisheries are nearly irrelevant to the sustainability of the run. As proven in areas with other known variables.

Open water fish fish farming on the other hand represents an unmanageable risk in that they spread alien disease into the native fish and in cases which they escape containment, will outcompete native fish for food on the coastlines and in the increasingly limited spawning habitat available.

The Atlantics don't even need to escape in order to compete for available food in the ocean. There are massive factory ships whose sole purpose is to target non-marketable fish species and grind them up into feed for the overly voracious, genetically engineered Atlantics. Thus potentially stripping the bottom blocks out of the pyramid that is the wild food chain.

Once the wild stocks contract a virus from the farms, in an environment of declining feed and spawning habitat, you're going to see collapse in the form of runs not making it back even as far as the estuary, nor returning despite adequate river escapement. That's what we see in the Fraser and the rest of the South Coast now that we don't see in Northern BC, Alaska, or Russia. However it does appear to replicate the North Atlantic experience.

Given the immenent, existential risk that fish farms present to wild pacific salmon sustainability, Recreationalists should be banding together with commercial and FN fisheries to evict their common enemy. Once that it is accomplished they can go back to fighting over what's left. Very soon, that won't be anything at all.

As as far as I can tell, getting rid of the farms is a pretty easy decision to make and target effort toward. When we do a risk/benefit analysis, the risks are high and the benefits just aren't there. They appear to be a fairly heavily subsidized industry, which taxpayers pay up front for and we're left with some minimum wage jobs and a whole lot of severe externalities.

[rimfire]

Ok, sure, we can debate the adequacy of our actual fisheries management all we like (I'm thinking it's often poorly managed), but when discussing the multiple variables such as we are here, it's a good idea to understand what constitutes a manageable risk vs an unmanageable one and therefore: the greates threat to sustainable wild fish stocks.

FN food fishing is a manageable risk to the fishery (we may not think it's being managed appropriately, but it is indeed manageable with potential widespread benefits to the whole fishery I might add; whether or not those benefits are being fully realized).

The run sizes don't have a 1:1 ratio, 1:2, or even 1:10 as your above post suggests. As long as appropriate escapement targets are being met, appropriately managed commercial and FN fisheries are nearly irrelevant to the sustainability of the run. As proven in areas with other known variables.

Open water fish fish farming on the other hand represents an unmanageable risk in that they spread alien disease into the native fish and in cases which they escape containment, will outcompete native fish for food on the coastlines and in the increasingly limited spawning habitat available.

The Atlantics don't even need to escape in order to compete for available food in the ocean. There are massive factory ships whose sole purpose is to target non-marketable fish species and grind them up into feed for the overly voracious, genetically engineered Atlantics. Thus potentially stripping the bottom blocks out of the pyramid that is the wild food chain.

Once the wild stocks contract a virus from the farms, in an environment of declining feed and spawning habitat, you're going to see collapse in the form of runs not making it back even as far as the estuary, nor returning despite adequate river escapement. That's what we see in the Fraser and the rest of the South Coast now that we don't see in Northern BC, Alaska, or Russia. However it does appear to replicate the North Atlantic experience.

Given the immenent, existential risk that fish farms present to wild pacific salmon sustainability, Recreationalists should be banding together with commercial and FN fisheries to evict their common enemy. Once that it is accomplished they can go back to fighting over what's left. Very soon, that won't be anything at all.

As as far as I can tell, getting rid of the farms is a pretty easy decision to make and target effort toward. When we do a risk/benefit analysis, the risks are high and the benefits just aren't there. They appear to be a fairly heavily subsidized industry, which taxpayers pay up front for and we're left with some minimum wage jobs and a whole lot of severe externalities.

Interesting tidbit. I was in Costco on Tuesday and they had Farmed Chinook salmon from Tofino. Viable option over Atlantic maybe?

[Pemby_mess]

Interesting tidbit. I was in Costco on Tuesday and they had Farmed Chinook salmon from Tofino. Viable option over Atlantic maybe?

Raising Springs would be an improvement for sure, but I don't think it's the species that is the concern so much. Move the operations on to land where there infectious disease ridden bio waste can be isolated and they can raise whatever species they think sells best. Preferably with sustainably raised food sources like farmed insects or something, and not the produce of indiscriminate drag nets.

[tubby]

Pembymess- great post. All fish farms should be on land with no chance of being EVER coming in contact with wild salmon.
However, being on the Fraser and its tribs 3+ days a week I can tell you that what I have seen over the last 20 yrs is that the netting has all but wiped out a lot of the Fraser stocks. Most are hanging on by a thread. Each year the amount of legal and illegal netting increases and therefore what actually gets past Hells Gate is a small fraction of what actually enters the river.

As for a food fishery? Not with the bands below Spuzzum, any legal opening has most of the fish being sold for money. Right now you have springs going for 2$ a lb, sockeye 5$ a fish, endangered interior Coho if not being left on the beach along with the pinks and steelhead they are getting will be given as an extra fish if you buy from them!!
unfortunetly the amount of fish and openings they have had have completely inflated the market for them and anything they can't sell gets dumped right back into the Fraser after a few days.
Now I don't want to paint the mid and upper stock bands in the same category as the lower Fraser bands. These guys are using traditional methods and are choked at how few fish are actually making it back.

You talk about escapement levels being met? Not a chance, the amount of fish actually reaching the spawning beds to cover brood the last few years is barren. Being in contact with the head reg 3 bio it sounds like the majority of the stocks are in grave danger. Extinction levels for a lot of the Fraser salmon stocks are already here...

So please if you care about the Fraser salmon stocks please give Barbara Mueller the resource manager for the Fraser a call and thank her for allowing the Fraser to get netted to extinction under her watch-6046662370

Oh...and here is the LEGAL in river netting that she has allowed since feb

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fr..._Previous.html

[Steeleco]

Hublocker.....FN nets have been on the Fraser almost daily. Its misinformed ppl like yourself that are turning a blind eye to the real problem that the Fraser is facing.
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fr..._Previous.html

Come out to the Albion area, you won't like what you see. Then a few hours later and a few km inland, you'll see Fraser river chicken for sale out of coolers!! Stop that and your on the mend!

[walks with deer]

Nasty seen..

[walks with deer]

Scene. Rapeing the river.disease.habitat destruction..where did the fish go..

[guest]

Fished Sandheads to T10 area for 6 hours along with up to 50 other recreational boats..... Seen one net out, that's it! Released a tiny spring end of day. Brutal, tons of bait and stuff???? On the sounder? Jellies by the gazillions ....? Who knows,,,,,, Zippidy do da , used herring, chovies, hootchies, spoons ....... Nuttin. Weird, around now .....you usually get a mixed bag of Late Pink, Spring, Coho hatch and wild, and chum ....... Not today. A beautiful day on the water with family but wow, it's slow, talked to guts that gushed the Cap mouth 5 hours with the pack and only saw 2 caught. Slim pickins right now.

[boxhitch]

Whats the water like? Warm?