New plan: kill the moose to save the Caribou

[Rob Chipman]

It comes back to the same issue as with grizzlies, and Raincoast is an excellent example of the problem.

Raincoast wants to save wolves and they (Raincoast) are influential. Their position on caribou is that the caribou should be written off and human activity blamed. Wolves, they argue, did not create the problem and should not have to pay the price for it.

(In other words, wolves good, caribou expendable).

This is despite the fact that wolves do not require saving.

The next tie in is science. Raincoast (and others on their side of the discussion) feel that science is all well and good, but before science comes into the equation we have to make decisions based on ethics and morals. Raincoast and others are of the opinion that science cannot inform us on the moral and ethical questions.

Translation: moral and ethical people value wolves more than caribou and science can't trump morals. The guys banging this drum, as said, have influence which they have worked hard to develop.


Scientist, on the other hand, recognize that while some species are doomed to extinction there are others (black footed ferret, mexican gray wolf) that can be saved. They recognize that predator management plays a big role (band aid role if that's all you do, but a role none the less).

Shooting, trapping and poisoning wolves is a very tough sell to the public (I believe someone by the name of Jesse Zeman has identified our need for social license. Social license is exactly what's missing in wolf killing), but reducing ungulates is easier because there isn't a need for social license and guys like Raincoast don't give a shit about ungulates.

I'm not certain that going after moose was the conscious second choice of the bios, but I do know (as we all do) that shooting wolves is problematic.

There's a study goign around that measured the results of this kind of practice. I am not sure I read it correctly as it seems like only a band aid, but I'll try to get it up.

Point of my rant? We need science back management, funding and social license. We need all three. I will be visiting an MLA in a hour and a half and will discuss this and other issues.

I need more volunteers to visit MLAs. PM me or email me at rob@robchipman.net.

[Seeker]

The revelstoke Situation is multi-faceted as most wildlife issues are. They had access issues; logging roads pushed into sensitive caribou habitat providing wolves easier access to the caribou, they have a huge snow mobile population(big economic driver locally) that hard packed trails directly to caribou wintering grounds, and then finally the wolves were not reduced or targeted at all. Thus the failure to improve caribou numbers.

I find it incredible that we all sit on here and say "kill the wolves" it will help to solve the problem. I agree to an extent. Just checked the regs, each individual hunter is allowed a MINIMUM of 3 wolves. Some areas NBL, yup that's No Bag Limit. So, the government has basically given us the green light to do exactly as we are hoping to do. KILL A LOT OF WOLVES. I am as guilty as the next hunter, I have only killed one, and it was over 10 years ago prior to even knowing that wolves were an issue to be dealt with. If we want our game to improve and reducing the wolf effect is necessary, we as hunters need to put in a lot more effort in ridding ourselves of this competitor. We can't just sit here and whine that the government " should do more and implement a wolf cull". They basically have done everything they can to appease the hunters, but hunters have done very little. We want someone else to get rid of our problem when we have the tools and authority to do it ourselves.

[dakoda62]

Here's a thought, kill some wolves.

[HarryToolips]

They better not do that again......and yes we need to shoot some wolves....

[HarryToolips]

So were obviously in a predator pit in certain areas of the province, when should we expect a lot of these wolves as well as other preds to start dying off??

[Caribou_lou]

This seems like a bandaid solution (if it works). Kill moose-wolves leave-caribou numbers rise-moose population returns-wolves return-caribou numbers decline.

I may be way off but seems too simple. Kill the preds and all ungulates benefit

[russm86]

The revelstoke Situation is multi-faceted as most wildlife issues are. They had access issues; logging roads pushed into sensitive caribou habitat providing wolves easier access to the caribou, they have a huge snow mobile population(big economic driver locally) that hard packed trails directly to caribou wintering grounds, and then finally the wolves were not reduced or targeted at all. Thus the failure to improve caribou numbers.

I find it incredible that we all sit on here and say "kill the wolves" it will help to solve the problem. I agree to an extent. Just checked the regs, each individual hunter is allowed a MINIMUM of 3 wolves. Some areas NBL, yup that's No Bag Limit. So, the government has basically given us the green light to do exactly as we are hoping to do. KILL A LOT OF WOLVES. I am as guilty as the next hunter, I have only killed one, and it was over 10 years ago prior to even knowing that wolves were an issue to be dealt with. If we want our game to improve and reducing the wolf effect is necessary, we as hunters need to put in a lot more effort in ridding ourselves of this competitor. We can't just sit here and whine that the government " should do more and implement a wolf cull". They basically have done everything they can to appease the hunters, but hunters have done very little. We want someone else to get rid of our problem when we have the tools and authority to do it ourselves.

I would love to get out and get some wolves however I don't have the funds for a snowmobile which is pretty well necessary to hunt them in the winter which is the best/easiest/most effective time which obviously greatly increases your odds. I'm sure many others are in the same boat...

[Fisher-Dude]

The revelstoke Situation is multi-faceted as most wildlife issues are. They had access issues; logging roads pushed into sensitive caribou habitat providing wolves easier access to the caribou, they have a huge snow mobile population(big economic driver locally) that hard packed trails directly to caribou wintering grounds, and then finally the wolves were not reduced or targeted at all. Thus the failure to improve caribou numbers.

I find it incredible that we all sit on here and say "kill the wolves" it will help to solve the problem. I agree to an extent. Just checked the regs, each individual hunter is allowed a MINIMUM of 3 wolves. Some areas NBL, yup that's No Bag Limit. So, the government has basically given us the green light to do exactly as we are hoping to do. KILL A LOT OF WOLVES. I am as guilty as the next hunter, I have only killed one, and it was over 10 years ago prior to even knowing that wolves were an issue to be dealt with. If we want our game to improve and reducing the wolf effect is necessary, we as hunters need to put in a lot more effort in ridding ourselves of this competitor. We can't just sit here and whine that the government " should do more and implement a wolf cull". They basically have done everything they can to appease the hunters, but hunters have done very little. We want someone else to get rid of our problem when we have the tools and authority to do it ourselves.

Hunters are basically incapable of reducing wolf populations.

Packs have to be hit with 75% losses for 5 years running to have an effect. We might be able to hit 5% reduction if we really try.

It is only government that has the authority and ability to invoke wolf reduction programs - aerial gunning, 1080, and skilled, paid trappers.

If hunters want to do something to help, they can pressure politicians to do the right thing. At this point, that pressure has to be at the boiling point from a unified front of all concerned groups.

Politically, there has to be the will to take a hit in public support to do it. Not sure any of the current vote scramblers are willing.

[Salix]

I'm a Forester in Mackenzie and have spent lots of time trying to get my head around this one. I'm surprised it hasnt been more of an issue with people who hunt moose.
Couple years ago the government imposed orders on logging companies that basically say at lower elevations (moose winter range) there can be very little moose browse. Logging companies have to do very intense brushing treatment to prevent the growth of moose browse species. This is in an order for protecting caribou. The premise is less moose food = less moose = less wolves that also pray on caribou. This new technique for caribou management covers most of the Mackenzie Timber supply area as well as a large area north of Fort st James.
The Kennedy siding caribou heard (just south of Mackenzie) is being managed slightly differently. The government is managing to a lower moose population there through hunting. They did not remove the calf hunt in 7-16 and 7-23. Also these units have higher numbers of LEH draws in those areas to encourage more hunting of moose in those areas. I know a few people that hunt that area on the east side of highway 97 north of bear lake and have said it can be hard to find animals.

[Walking Buffalo]

I'm a Forester in Mackenzie and have spent lots of time trying to get my head around this one. I'm surprised it hasnt been more of an issue with people who hunt moose.
Couple years ago the government imposed orders on logging companies that basically say at lower elevations (moose winter range) there can be very little moose browse. Logging companies have to do very intense brushing treatment to prevent the growth of moose browse species. This is in an order for protecting caribou. The premise is less moose food = less moose = less wolves that also pray on caribou. This new technique for caribou management covers most of the Mackenzie Timber supply area as well as a large area north of Fort st James.
The Kennedy siding caribou heard (just south of Mackenzie) is being managed slightly differently. The government is managing to a lower moose population there through hunting. They did not remove the calf hunt in 7-16 and 7-23. Also these units have higher numbers of LEH draws in those areas to encourage more hunting of moose in those areas. I know a few people that hunt that area on the east side of highway 97 north of bear lake and have said it can be hard to find animals.

Kill Moose AND Kill Trees (which kill habitat for other species) to save Caribou from the wolves....

There was an Old Lady.....

How was the Brush killed? Poison?