region 5 hunting season 2017

[palmer]

Steve: love the thought process. But I still think if we had a complete closure of any Female moose harvest by all groups and with the great habit we will have going forward, you would have plenty of moose in no time.
I have my doubts this will ever happen, so you may be right that the only way we will get anything done is if ALL and I say ALL user groups are closed for a certain amount of time and then the harvest is strictly controlled.
Reality is that we are still years away from getting enough co operation to get anything really done between the user groups.

[srupp]

I asked a question or 2..and had a suggestion..was prepared for answers i don't know currently..i guess my lifetime of training always left me erring" on the patients behalf..
I'm 60 and have not witnessed an even of this magnitude..and it's not over..

Thank you for the restrained informed oppinions with politeness..interesting times indeed..
I agree that female moose harvest plays a pivotal role in managing..so do unreported no quotas..
Add in pine beetle kill..
Add in preditor increases mostly because of forestry roads and large open areas..much easier for them to spot prey at distances and plan execute an attack..
There are more predators..bears..both grizzly and black..wolves..not sure on cougars
It may..again be death by 1,000 cuts..piece by piece..again bucket is just as empty with 15 holes as it is if kicked over..just takes a bit longer.
The last smaller fire on the West side of Alexis Creek hwy 20 I never did see the spontaneous return as reported here..I flew once a week by chopper..never see n one animal that year..the next year stopped to watch a moose in the burn but it was a year with snow, rain, time between.
I'm a lousy dancer but I'm very good with time..from 3 minutes of life to weeks before hunting season..
It may be the best event in 100 years for grasslands and sheep next year...and for decades..
Nice to have an important discussion about important issues with civility. .I'm pleased with those that have experienced this and predictions of animals back to home ranges soon after fires end.
With fires growing in size and numbers..new evacuations.land planned prescribed burns and the days going by..plus anticipated and reported thunderstorms with lightening for this week coming..it's a big hill to climb for all wildlife..
Never having this experience I was and am concerned on the short haul., this season those who have faced this reassurances are appreciated..thank you.
Srupp

[Walking Buffalo]

Have a cold one Srupp.

[Big Lew]

Well, as I earlier said, I appreciate your concerns and have them as well. Not for the long term, but
as was said, fire is needed and the growth sprouting from burned areas helps animals rebuild their
health and numbers. What I'm concerned with is short term. Imagine the quick recovery that
would take place if the animals were allowed to do follow the natural cycle without heavy pressure
on the breeding stock still around after massive fires such as what's happening in the cariboo this year.
I've seen grouse populations lose their entire year of chicks several times and they do re-build their
numbers, but in areas that hunters have hammered the adult breeding stock, it often takes several
years. Like a bucket with a hole in it, pouring the same amount or less into it doesn't get you a full pail.

[srupp]

[QUOIE=WalIing Buffalo;19252e a coldoptimismpp. [/QUOTE]


Lol wife has other plans for my day..weedeating..now raking..
Question..if this event threatened wildlife numbers..even for 2..3 years how would we know? And when..?
Lol Impressed with the overwhelming optimism...yuk raking...how do you start a rake? Lol
Srupp

[mpotzold]

Sorry Steven, respectfully. I have to disagree with your opinion on this entire matter.
Maybe the big game may move....for now...to some other locations, but in the long run, this fire is the best thing that
could ever of happened.....for wildlife.

Also, I don't recall any kind of "thought reaction" to you original post, when the Kelowna fire happened.
Sounds like wildlife is just fine up in Kelowna...even better then before....

Also....look at Yellowstone....let's not forget that fire....
Look at all the benefits it had for wildlife.

Pine beetle and over logging (due to pine beetle)...in many areas...has been nothing but detrimental to wildlife.
Roads are littered all over the plateau around cache creek and Clinton due to pine beetle/logging etc.
This fire has been long over due.

God, if a fire could happen up in the area where I hunt in the EK, it would be the best thing ever for wildlife...
It's been well over 100 years+ since that area has seen a fire, and pine beetle has taken over, and now the logging,
granted, the logging has been much more "reserved" in that area, but everytime another road is added up there as well.

I appreciate much of what you post, and the efforts you put in to help etc, but I couldn't disagree with you more on
this one....
Just my opinion...BMI

[Golddust]

I think alot of guys are getting caught up on the benefits of the fires years down the road. Yes, absolutely the fire creates new growth and with that new growth comes an immense ammount of forrage. The problem is that there has been no seed dispersal into these areas. It's mid-late summer all the plants have stopped their reproductive means except for a few weeds. These fires are occuring in important wintering ranges. We're also coming off a winter that was quite harsh. These animals have been stressed for close to a year now and with the lack of forage made available by the fire there is a good chance they will be stressed for close to 18 months. Thats 2 ruts, 2 winters, 2 batches of fawns/calves. Along with this the devastation by the fires will make it easier for the predators now that there is reduced deep timber as well as the ground will be easier for them to cover. In the grand scheme of things if you lose 1 year of hunting in a few areas its not the end of the world. But 1 year of no hunting pressure could be immense for these animals. I'm not saying that we should make this a normal occurrence, but in this circumstance because of how rough the environmental factors have been it could do some serious good for the regeneration of some struggling populations.

[Bugle M In]

Great points.i do get what it will do down the road.point I think might be missed. .it's still burning..no chance? For much regrowth this year . definitely in next 60 days or so.
Does anyone here know the mortality numbers? Neither do I, nor biologists.some of these fires raced for many kilometers in one day.
And there is currently a ATV, MOTORCYCLE, ban..in someplaces your not even allowed in certain areas.
When i considered this view, question..i realized all the dead fall combustible materials now gone, trees burned so that sunlight can reach the ground..yes burning will help in a certain time frame.
Considering most fires are still burning..some still out of control? Or at least minimally contained..with more evacuation alerts orders..allowing hunters into areas just vastly complicates a already troubled time .and truly adds to the remaining wildlife stress..and outcome potential.
Like I said I don't know the numbers..but it is much bigger problem than some may realize. Bigger area of region 5 burned than in past 100 years.plus the timing is critical in this situation..it is still burning in a lot of areas with more back burning scheduled and tremendously smokey..tick tick.
Thank you for extreme kindness in your replies..started thinking..and realized far more intelligent knowlegable experienced folks here than me..i have yet to meet anyone who has experienced this level and scope of devestating fires so late ..with lightening expected this coming week and absolutely parched conditions everywhere.

I admire the optimism , I know Mother nature uses fires for habitat improvement..fact is we have become too good at putting smaller fires out creating massive fuel supplies on the ground creating the potential for the perfect storm..which we are currently experiencing.
I too feel spring bear 2018 the growth from regeneration..added nutrients..missing thick canopies open forest floors. .is all welcome and great news.
But my concern is still for Sept 1..Nov 2017...unprecedented situation..meaning hasn't happened like this before..

I know..hope the animals will eventually do well., do they need some this fall?
Appreciate all the replies..some very valid eventual outcomes.
The grass habitat for Californian bighorn sheep has needed burn offs of mature grasslands for decades..a controlled burn was planned done? Last year?
Size..timing..and still burning..Precipice. .to Ashcroft..Little fort..Loon Lake to Lynne creek pretty significant areas still burning.

Cheers..and coughs. .very smokey here today..

Again appreciate all the input..not hand wringing..just concerned and thinking..
Srupp

Qoute, Like I said I don't know the numbers..but it is much bigger problem than some may realize. Bigger area of region 5 burned than in past 100 years.plus the timing is critical in this situation..

A big burn for a big problem.....bingo.....we have had some real "big" declines in population....so....
a real big burn is probably the right cure!!

Also, you have helped so many on this website, so you definitely deserve the right for people to disagree with you...
politely and respectfully.

I am sure many of us are all concerned...just some of us see it a different way.
Easy for us, as we aren't living right there in the heart of that event.
From what I have seen....many are saying to hunt the fringes between the burn and the old growth....
It is possible some areas may not see game return to the wintering areas, if they were burned, but they will move on
elsewhere for now....my opinion.
As for wildlife being killed....I guess that all depends "how fast" the fire moved.
Yellowstone did have losses, from what I remember (google would answer that), but, I think that fire "hauled some ass"
at times.
But, look at all the documentaries that came from that fire, and all the positives.
I think at that time, they were amazed at the positive impact, something they had thought would be a disaster for
the park...wildlife...and tourism........not.

[Big Lew]

I think alot of guys are getting caught up on the benefits of the fires years down the road. Yes, absolutely the fire creates new growth and with that new growth comes an immense ammount of forrage. The problem is that there has been no seed dispersal into these areas. It's mid-late summer all the plants have stopped their reproductive means except for a few weeds. These fires are occuring in important wintering ranges. We're also coming off a winter that was quite harsh. These animals have been stressed for close to a year now and with the lack of forage made available by the fire there is a good chance they will be stressed for close to 18 months. Thats 2 ruts, 2 winters, 2 batches of fawns/calves. Along with this the devastation by the fires will make it easier for the predators now that there is reduced deep timber as well as the ground will be easier for them to cover. In the grand scheme of things if you lose 1 year of hunting in a few areas its not the end of the world. But 1 year of no hunting pressure could be immense for these animals. I'm not saying that we should make this a normal occurrence, but in this circumstance because of how rough the environmental factors have been it could do some serious good for the regeneration of some struggling populations.

I'm also very happy that this thread has gone on so long in a polite and mature manner, thanks.
I think what you've posted is pretty close to what Steven, some others, and I have been suggesting.

[Bugle M In]

One thing after this is all said and done, and people have returned home to a back to normal lifestyle...or...
should I say, as normal a lifestyle as possible....is...
Are the forestry companies going to want to come in and start "replanting"??
I hope not...IMO..I hope it grows up in the natural state that mother nature intended it to.
That is where human intervention could screw this all up....IMO