Lets all create more wildlife together as a team

[LBM]

If hunting were affecting ungulate numbers, then your idea would have some merit.

However, hunting is not driving ungulate populations, so imposing more restrictions on hunters is absolutely the wrong approach.

We haven't hunted southern caribou for > 30 years, and they are almost extinct.

We went from any buck mule deer Sept 10 - Nov 30 and GOS 3 weeks of does, to 4 point only closing Nov 10 and no doe season, mule deer decline.

We went from any bull moose, 6 week season and GOS cows, to spike fork only for 2 weeks, moose decline.

We went from 3 point bull elk Sept 10 - Nov 15 and some GOS cows, to 6 point only Sept 10 - Oct 20 and no GOS cows, and elk decline.

Restricting hunting further does nothing for ungulate populations. We've had 40 years of more restrictive seasons, we have only 60% of the hunters we had before, and species are in decline.

People need to learn from history and realize that blaming hunting for species declines is an incorrect approach to game management. People are quick to confuse "what's good for me (eg more bow seasons because I'm a bow hunter)" with conservation. It's the wrong approach, proven over and over.

Yes people have to learn that humans are part of the reason for species decline.

[Fisher-Dude]

Yes people have to learn that humans are part of the reason for species decline.

I don't even think you hunt, Larry. Nor are you willing to do anything to help wildlife.

[Wild one]

Yes people have to learn that humans are part of the reason for species decline.

They are hence talk of road deactivation

Humans are no doubt a factor in many different ways. The way we change or destroy habitat is the biggest factor

But we are not the only factor

[Fisher-Dude]

Bullderdash ...have personally seen deer population drop to near zero in 1 year when wolves moved in.

So what you're saying is that all the science on mule deer should be abandoned, and we should pour scarce resources into what hasn't worked elsewhere?

Why didn't mule deer respond to pred control in 95% of studies?

When asked what makes a difference in mule deer populations at a recent presentation in Kelowna, mule deer expert Dr Sophie Gilbert answered "Habitat, habitat, habitat." You can check her credentials here: http://www.gilbertresearch.org/dr-sophie-gilbert/

[Fella]

Going to try and pull it back up to the 30,000 ft level....
I believe the spirit of this thread was to discuss a come together approach to address wildlife issues.
Without fail the big picture discusion ends up in the minutiae.

Rd deactivation (in some areas/circumstances) is just one of many tools that can assist and protect wildlife where rd access is having a negative impact.

Again, the big picture is to create a funding model all parties can support that will invest in wildlife and the habitat they so desperately need.

Well said. This whole debate is moot if there's no habitat for wildlife.

[brownmancheng]

So how do we create habitat? grasslands by controlled burns or more old growth timber by reducing industry?

I don't fully understand the road deactivation aspect. It only restricts vehicles so it is still a pred highway. And has been stated regulated hunting does not have a huge impact. So is it only to decrease unregulated hunting in these areas?

Seems as though compulsory reporting for all user groups should be a priority so the biologists have all the information they need.

[hawk-i]

So what you're saying is that all the science on mule deer should be abandoned, and we should pour scarce resources into what hasn't worked elsewhere?

Why didn't mule deer respond to pred control in 95% of studies?

When asked what makes a difference in mule deer populations at a recent presentation in Kelowna, mule deer expert Dr Sophie Gilbert answered "Habitat, habitat, habitat." You can check her credentials here: http://www.gilbertresearch.org/dr-sophie-gilbert/

So where the hell did I say that.???

Read it again and then once more if that's what it takes.

[HarryToolips]

So how do we create habitat? grasslands by controlled burns or more old growth timber by reducing industry?

I don't fully understand the road deactivation aspect. It only restricts vehicles so it is still a pred highway. And has been stated regulated hunting does not have a huge impact. So is it only to decrease unregulated hunting in these areas?

Seems as though compulsory reporting for all user groups should be a priority so the biologists have all the information they need.

Bingo....unregulated hunting is a major reason for major declines in certain areas, region 5 and 6 big time from what I hear...but buck:doe ratios are speculated to be down in certain parts of region 8 too..

[HarryToolips]

If hunting were affecting ungulate numbers, then your idea would have some merit.

However, hunting is not driving ungulate populations, so imposing more restrictions on hunters is absolutely the wrong approach.

We haven't hunted southern caribou for > 30 years, and they are almost extinct.

We went from any buck mule deer Sept 10 - Nov 30 and GOS 3 weeks of does, to 4 point only closing Nov 10 and no doe season, mule deer decline.

We went from any bull moose, 6 week season and GOS cows, to spike fork only for 2 weeks, moose decline.

We went from 3 point bull elk Sept 10 - Nov 15 and some GOS cows, to 6 point only Sept 10 - Oct 20 and no GOS cows, and elk decline.

Restricting hunting further does nothing for ungulate populations. We've had 40 years of more restrictive seasons, we have only 60% of the hunters we had before, and species are in decline.

People need to learn from history and realize that blaming hunting for species declines is an incorrect approach to game management. People are quick to confuse "what's good for me (eg more bow seasons because I'm a bow hunter)" with conservation. It's the wrong approach, proven over and over.

Right, and we know that the major reasons for caribou decline has been loss of the old growth forests which provide them critical forage they require such as lichens, as well as predation of course..

moose and elk supposedly are on the increase in region 8...but what's the main difference on the landscape now vs then? More preds? Maybe... but a hell of a lot more access now...face it people: we need more ungulate sanctuaries - doesn't mean all spur FSR's have to be deactivated, but a lot more would help..

[Bugle M In]

The fires right now have been the best thing to restore wildlife #'s.
I feel sorry for personnel property loss due to the fires that are going on right now....but....
if we are speaking strictly "create more wildlife" (disregarding human property loss etc)....I say burn baby burn!
There are some areas in the EK that need "huge 100,000 + hectare fires as well!
The only way that this type of "enhancement" will ever happen is from a "raging, uncontrollable wildfire"
Human prescribed burns couldn't even come close to this type of "wildlife/habitat enhancement" going on right
now.
And with fires, there are no roads ( or not many) being created to cause further concern about (over/easy access)
having more road deactivations.
Yes logging is necessary for families, and has created/given us hunters roads to access great hunting opportunities
that we all on this community should be thankful for....but, this "pine beetle fiasco" has created way too many roads,
as forestry companies try to cut down as much timber as possible before the beetle kills it.
And, from my understanding, because forestry companies have to pay a "stumpage fee", they are leaving the dead
timber (pine beetle killed) where it lies....just adding more fuel sources.
The change to the practice in the later 90's was not for the better IMO for anybody, especially wildlife.
They need to clean up those cut blocks better, and burn it all when they are done.
Oh, and I don't really want to get into the science factor, if we still have some groups who hunt in BC, but don't
have to give #'s to the ministry of what they "harvest".
How can we have science, if you can't "plug in" the correct #'s into the calculator???
Garbage in...garbage out...
Atv's should have to stay on the main roads....just like a truck....
They should not be allowed to "make new trails" throughout this province....
I don't necessarily blame the quad guys...it is more the "dirt bike clubs" who are creating these "new trails"...
The quad guys just find them....and off they go.
Ya...going to get some "heat" from the quad hunters from that last statement....but it is for the best to "help wildlife"
Sorry, but wildlife do need some areas where they are not continuously "hassled".
Habitat and access are probably the biggest factors.
Pred control is another issue.
Many in the ministry.... I think....feel that high pred #'s is just a short term problem that will rectify itself.....
which is true.....but it means the ungulate #'s will have to drop 1st.....then the preds die off naturally....
But, this thread is about making ungulate #'s flourish...so....you have to lower the high pred #'s we have right now.
Answer......poison.