Non-resident allocation too high

[40incher]

Who is fighting? I see an open discussion. That's all.... Are we submitting resolutions or getting rallies together? Enhancing habitat and growing more wildlife is still priority one, as well as other issues being ahead of allocation, at least in my mind. I think what Lange was attempting to do was remind people, including guide outfitters that it is still an issue, has not been forgotten, and we certainly do not wish to be out lobbied in regard to further restrictions on resident hunters if science does not dictate the need.

Once again, I must agree.

The guide apologists are trying to suck this thread off of topic.

The GO's made a huge error in judgment when they openly turned on resident hunters and turned their maximum percentages into their minimums. They now realize the piper needs to be paid for that poor decision. Suck it up buttercups!

To walk away from the allocation issue is a mistake that some have recently made ... I think Lange is trying to bring it back to the forefront. Good on him.

As I have said previously, the GO apologists don't want the real issue to be discussed so they try and confuse it. I think they all must have taken a course of how to diffuse and distract. I have never seen such a bunch of whiners in my long life.

The issue at play is that resident hunters who care are going to right the wrong. No more putting up with a bullshit decision by a Liberal government that was bought and paid for by the GO's ... literally. At least Crispy paid the price for her indiscretions.

So ... once again ... quit whining and being apologists for a poor decision.

Let's keep the discussion going and on track boys.

[bearvalley]

1) Why should any business get a quota of a public resource? Most businesses don't get one.
2) What makes GO so special that they need one?
3) *If* they need that quota to make the business viable, why should it matter to the public that their business is viable? What's the public benefit? Most businesses have to survive own their own without government help.
4) If you can answer #3, should the quota throw off a benefit of inflating the value of a tenure so that a GO makes (or is perceived to make) a big windfall capital gain?
5) The NACM says market hunting has to be eliminated. How is selling a trophy hunt not market hunting?


Again, I'm not attacking you, but trying to get some of the anti-GO objections out in the open. I'm not rabidly anti-GO so I may not have framed them all accurately and I'm using my imagination a bit to illustrate where I think some guys are coming from. And actually, other guys aside from you can answer, but you're fairly knowledgeable and I think you want to move forward from where we're stuck, so...

As for what has BCWF done for people up north? There is no question BCWF has to evolve and demonstrate that it delivers value. It's moving that way but it is still falling down. It's the old story: do we use the vehicle we have, which has many positives, or do we start a whole new one, which will be very difficult? One challenge is that I'm not sure everyone involved in BCWF recognizes how poorly it is thought of in some quarters, especially among people who should be shoulder to shoulder with us. We've got work to do there, no question.

Rob, I'm sure some won't agree but here goes;
1) Stability...if you do not have a product you do not have a business.
I realize that some people have an issue with GO's having quota but really is it different than a sawmill being tied to a TFL.
A quota gives stability and it sets an upper limit.
Somewhere an upper harvest level needs to be identified and stayed within.

2) No one says a GO is special but when you do the math on the best bang for your buck there is a place for the GO industry.
Remember Rob, appr 5% of the recreational hunters in this province generate roughly one third of the revenue generated by hunting.
Guided hunters harvest roughly 2% of the provincial wildlife...is that 2% going to generate much into the provincial economy if GO's cease to exist?

3). Most of the public have zero knowledge of the GO business and for that matter the majority are quite clueless as to how the northern part of BC survives.
The northern economy is largely based on resources and even tho some don't want to admit it, wildlife is a renewable resource.
There are a few public resources that if properly managed are renewable, trees for sawmills, grass for livestock and properly managed wildlife is another.
One or two northern communities would have a pretty tough go if outfitters disappeared off the landscape.
So really is the GO industry getting government help thru being issued a quota and therefor being able to run a viable business.....or is a local community getting government help by having local GO businesses putting into the local economy.
Some northern communities tend to believe the latter is the case.

4). There's a few ways to look at the rising value of a GO businesses.
a) Is it due inflation?
b) Is it due to supply and demand?
Rob, you're a businessman....who wants to disperse of assets at a loss. In some cases there's a lot more involved in why a GO business increases in value such as upgraded infrastructure, etc, etc.
Outfitting is not the get rich game plan that some want to portray...more so it's a lifestyle that some would not trade for any other.

5) I will leave it up to you to sort out the difference between market hunting of the past and present day guided hunts.
Its comparing apples to oranges, or as bridger used to say apples to pigs.
The key word is "guided" hunt Rob, some of my BC clients would be pretty damn insulted if they realized they were being differentiated from their neighbour just because they hired a guide so they could achieve their goal with less headaches.

You're right on the point that a bunch of us should be shoulder to shoulder but I'm afraid that a big step backwards is being made by the executive of one group that says they are the "voice of resident hunters".

[Whonnock Boy]

Considering who you are likely getting your information from, I'm sure most things they do moving forward will be wrong.

You're right on the point that a bunch of us should be shoulder to shoulder but I'm afraid that a big step backwards is being made by the executive of one group that says they are the "voice of resident hunters".

[bearvalley]

Considering who you are likely getting your information from, I'm sure most things they do moving forward will be wrong.

Lets see what happens.

[Rob Chipman]

Bearvalley:

Thanks for the response. Can you see, though, how it's not convincing to a lot of people? Can you see how in fact it might actually piss some guys off even more? If not I'll walk you through, because if you can't convince people who oppose your current position you're not going to get their help (it really is that simple).

I'm going to walk you through it to highlight what I see as the problems with your response, but, like you said, I'm a businessman so...you're going to have to wait a bit until I get my business taken care of this morning!

[HappyJack]

Here's something for everyone to think about.
Not long ago I asked what the BCWF "the voice of resident hunters, etc, etc) had done to better wildlife in the northern half of Region 6.
The answer was "sweet F-all".
It seems that now that the BCWF has "flushed it's toilet" the new mandate for some is to go back to the days of the past...fighting over NON EXISTENT OPPURTUNITIES.
Its going to be interesting moving forward.

Non existent opportunities? That is because the dang guides have way too big a share of the allocations, otherwise the resident hunters would have significantly more opportunity.

[brownmancheng]

Lol..that's the funniest ones ever..
Hmmmm spend 12 months each year preparing for spring fall..raising, vetting, training his canines to predator hunt..removing bears, lynx, cougars that prey on the deer, moose, caribou, goat..coming in as a predator specialist in his region..
Trapping predators..in that "free time"...helping resident hunters out time after time with his knowledge, skills and precious little free time.
Sitting on boards trying to make this whole hunting situation better for all..not just a few..
Hosting Wounded Warriors hunting preditors"
Chilcotin has the same 24 hours in his day as do we how he a comp is he's it? Hard work..long days...short nite. .
Oh recently he picked up a ax, shovel and organized the community volinteer and worked like HELL saving a large piece of BC..than wildlife call home...unfortunately you picked the wrong example..Doug leads by example..try and keep up..good luck.
Doug is not a bragger nor a talker..he is however a doer...
What hasn't he and his family done for wildlife?

C H" doesn't need my help, nor anyone's. .but with a home, family, buissnes, and all the above mentioned daily commitments. .thought I would help you with some facts..
Cheers
Srupp

i guess you could say LBM may be barking up the wrong tree regarding chilcotin hillbilly . lol couldn't help my self. back to the discussion!

[bearvalley]

Non existent opportunities? That is because the dang guides have way too big a share of the allocations, otherwise the resident hunters would have significantly more opportunity.

You really are quite clueless.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

You really are quite clueless.

I will second that.

[srupp]

i guess you could say LBM may be barking up the wrong tree regarding chilcotin hillbilly . lol couldn't help my self. back to the discussion!

That's too funny..l Mao. .great one..
Steven