Non-resident allocation too high

[bearvalley]

Im just curious and not really my place to ask since your question was to some one else but what have you done for wildlife lately?

I think most of us would love to see everyone pulling on the same rope. That doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of resident hunters that are miffed - to say the least - about GOABC's antics in regard to allocation (and if it doesn't matter now why did it matter two years ago). Once again, the point stands... allocation and wildlife enhancement are two separate issues. Enhancement is more important (as far as I'm concerned) but that doesn't mean allocation is unimportant.

Here's something for everyone to think about.
Not long ago I asked what the BCWF "the voice of resident hunters, etc, etc) had done to better wildlife in the northern half of Region 6.
The answer was "sweet F-all".
It seems that now that the BCWF has "flushed it's toilet" the new mandate for some is to go back to the days of the past...fighting over NON EXISTENT OPPURTUNITIES.
Its going to be interesting moving forward.

[Whonnock Boy]

Who is fighting? I see an open discussion. That's all.... Are we submitting resolutions or getting rallies together? Enhancing habitat and growing more wildlife is still priority one, as well as other issues being ahead of allocation, at least in my mind. I think what Lange was attempting to do was remind people, including guide outfitters that it is still an issue, has not been forgotten, and we certainly do not wish to be out lobbied in regard to further restrictions on resident hunters if science does not dictate the need.

Here's something for everyone to think about.
Not long ago I asked what the BCWF "the voice of resident hunters, etc, etc) had done to better wildlife in the northern half of Region 6.
The answer was "sweet F-all".
It seems that now that the BCWF has "flushed it's toilet" the new mandate for some is to go back to the days of the past...fighting over NON EXISTENT OPPURTUNITIES.
Its going to be interesting moving forward.

[bearvalley]

Who is fighting? I see an open discussion. That's all.... Are we submitting resolutions or getting rallies together? Enhancing habitat and growing more wildlife is still priority one, as well as other issues being ahead of allocation, at least in my mind. I think what Lange was attempting to do was remind people, including guide outfitters that it is still an issue, has not been forgotten, and we certainly do not wish to be out lobbied in regard to further restrictions on resident hunters if science does not dictate the need.

Your versions a little different than what Langeggers throwing out.

[Rob Chipman]

I'll tell you one thing (ok, a few things):

There is bad blood between many resident hunters and the GOABC (and sometimes the animosity toward the GOABC bleeds into animosity against any GO). This is unfortunate, because in one respect we are all in the same boat and should be paddling the same way, but there is a perception that some of the people in the boat get a better deal and that some of the people in the boat are choosing holes in it.

This bad blood revolves around allocation, quota and the tenure system. I've heard the explanations about why the quota and tenure system are the only way the GO business can work in BC, and I've heard the explanations of why it's so beneficial, and I've heard other explanations as well, but I have to be honest - none of those explanations are effective sales pitches for people who are critical of the GOABC.

If we want people to paddle the boat in the same direction we need to remove the perception that some people get a better seat and that some people are chopping holes in the boat.

This is for you, bearvalley. See if you can answer these without telling me I'm full of crap or attacking my motives. If you can you might convince a few other guys (like the really anti GO ones). I'm not looking for a fight. It's just an intellectual exercise.

1) Why should any business get a quota of a public resource? Most businesses don't get one.
2) What makes GO so special that they need one?
3) *If* they need that quota to make the business viable, why should it matter to the public that their business is viable? What's the public benefit? Most businesses have to survive own their own without government help.
4) If you can answer #3, should the quota throw off a benefit of inflating the value of a tenure so that a GO makes (or is perceived to make) a big windfall capital gain?
5) The NACM says market hunting has to be eliminated. How is selling a trophy hunt not market hunting?


Again, I'm not attacking you, but trying to get some of the anti-GO objections out in the open. I'm not rabidly anti-GO so I may not have framed them all accurately and I'm using my imagination a bit to illustrate where I think some guys are coming from. And actually, other guys aside from you can answer, but you're fairly knowledgeable and I think you want to move forward from where we're stuck, so...

As for what has BCWF done for people up north? There is no question BCWF has to evolve and demonstrate that it delivers value. It's moving that way but it is still falling down. It's the old story: do we use the vehicle we have, which has many positives, or do we start a whole new one, which will be very difficult? One challenge is that I'm not sure everyone involved in BCWF recognizes how poorly it is thought of in some quarters, especially among people who should be shoulder to shoulder with us. We've got work to do there, no question.

[guest]

Im just curious and not really my place to ask since your question was to some one else but what have you done for wildlife lately?

maybe do some home work on CHB before you attempt to call him out for Lack of helping wildlife. I only wish I could do what Doug and his family do for wildlife.

To be clear, it too am upset with the allocation brought on by the Liberals when they were in power, way over the top in my opinion. I am in favour of a 90/10 split, resident/non res..... I am also in support of some Guide Outfitters, smaller operations, resident owned Outfitters, yes there is a place for the GO business in BC........ HOWEVER....... I am not in favour of GO's own by big money foreign folks from USA, Germany, Africa or any where else other than BC. I am not in favour of corporate greed to price the average BC resident out of the market for a hunt.

The entire allocation, management and regulation of our BC Wildlife need to be revamped ........ Get BC back to its potential, get BC back to what it once was. If we keep going the way we are, the wheels on the Bus outa town are quickly falling off one by one. This includes habitat restoration, enforcement....... Based on Sound science, More Money to wildlife and what it takes to grow it.

All level of governments need to buy in! Or this will go the way of our BC Coastal wild salmon and it's disgusting management over many many years ........ Let's not follow by that terrible example.

CT

[Gateholio]

I think some believe that habitat and wildlife would be better off if resident hunters and guide outfitters were not "in this together" in the way that the "trophy" hunting industry is weighing us down in our efforts. I am quite certain that there are other user groups and stakeholders that would allow us to be looked upon with a more favourable light if we were partnered with them. Public opinion holds a lot of weight these days, and the outfitting industry is severely tainted. Resident hunters are bringing far more to the table than guide outfitters, then throw in the allocation percentages, and it would seem that we are getting the short end of a very long stick regardless of what shape our animal populations are in. All this of course is in my humble opinion.

Public opinion will play a large role in hunting opportunity in the near future.

Right or wrong, the general public opinion on non resident hunters is that they come to shoot a prime animal, chop off it's head and take it back to Texas.

They are generally supportive of residents hunting any species as it's viewed as a food hunt first,even on species like goat or sheep. The exception seems to be grizzlies and wolves, and much of the public doesn't want anyone hunting them.

[LBM]

maybe do some home work on CHB before you attempt to call him out for Lack of helping wildlife. I only wish I could do what Doug and his family do for wildlife.

To be clear, it too am upset with the allocation brought on by the Liberals when they were in power, way over the top in my opinion. I am in favour of a 90/10 split, resident/non res..... I am also in support of some Guide Outfitters, smaller operations, resident owned Outfitters, yes there is a place for the GO business in BC........ HOWEVER....... I am not in favour of GO's own by big money foreign folks from USA, Germany, Africa or any where else other than BC. I am not in favour of corporate greed to price the average BC resident out of the market for a hunt.

The entire allocation, management and regulation of our BC Wildlife need to be revamped ........ Get BC back to its potential, get BC back to what it once was. If we keep going the way we are, the wheels on the Bus outa town are quickly falling off one by one. This includes habitat restoration, enforcement....... Based on Sound science, More Money to wildlife and what it takes to grow it.

All level of governments need to buy in! Or this will go the way of our BC Coastal wild salmon and it's disgusting management over many many years ........ Let's not follow by that terrible example.

CT

Come up for air curly never called him out just asked the question.

[HarryToolips]

To be clear, it too am upset with the allocation brought on by the Liberals when they were in power, way over the top in my opinion. I am in favour of a 90/10 split, resident/non res..... I am also in support of some Guide Outfitters, smaller operations, resident owned Outfitters, yes there is a place for the GO business in BC........ HOWEVER....... I am not in favour of GO's own by big money foreign folks from USA, Germany, Africa or any where else other than BC. I am not in favour of corporate greed to price the average BC resident out of the market for a hunt.

The entire allocation, management and regulation of our BC Wildlife need to be revamped ........ Get BC back to its potential, get BC back to what it once was. If we keep going the way we are, the wheels on the Bus outa town are quickly falling off one by one. This includes habitat restoration, enforcement....... Based on Sound science, More Money to wildlife and what it takes to grow it.

All level of governments need to buy in! Or this will go the way of our BC Coastal wild salmon and it's disgusting management over many many years ........ Let's not follow by that terrible example.

CT

Well said, completely agree....

[LBM]

Lol..that's the funniest ones ever..
Hmmmm spend 12 months each year preparing for spring fall..raising, vetting, training his canines to predator hunt..removing bears, lynx, cougars that prey on the deer, moose, caribou, goat..coming in as a predator specialist in his region..
Trapping predators..in that "free time"...helping resident hunters out time after time with his knowledge, skills and precious little free time.
Sitting on boards trying to make this whole hunting situation better for all..not just a few..
Hosting Wounded Warriors hunting preditors"
Chilcotin has the same 24 hours in his day as do we how he a comp is he's it? Hard work..long days...short nite. .
Oh recently he picked up a ax, shovel and organized the community volinteer and worked like HELL saving a large piece of BC..than wildlife call home...unfortunately you picked the wrong example..Doug leads by example..try and keep up..good luck.
Doug is not a bragger nor a talker..he is however a doer...
What hasn't he and his family done for wildlife?

C H" doesn't need my help, nor anyone's. .but with a home, family, buissnes, and all the above mentioned daily commitments. .thought I would help you with some facts..
Cheers
Srupp

Ok if your his spokes person maybe you could answer this.
IMO bears, cougars, lynx,wolves etc are wildlife and to kill them just so they don't kill something so you (humans) can isn't really wildlife conservation IMO.
Now if you(he) didn't have these animals (predators as you like to call them) around could or would he still be able to run his business for they are
pretty much his bread and butter for his outfitting business are the not, are maybe he could still survive on his moose, deer, and goat hunts.

[Rob Chipman]

Killing predators isn't always conservation, and probably isn't always wise or desirable, but there is solid science behind predator control. Complex subject, and killing preds isn't the magic bullet, but don't fool yourself: in addition to habitat recruitment is very important to building wildlife populations. Recruitment means the number of young that are produced and survive. In some areas a ton of fawns/calves get whacked by predators. It's just nature's way, but if we're making it tough by destroying habitat sometimes it helps to knock down predators. (Complex subject and I'm not doing justice to it, but I don't think I'm too far off the mark).

In fact, I just read a cool study of killing moose to knock down wolf numbers to help caribou (and although they weren't gunning the wolves directly it amounts to the same thing as far as reducing them goes). Solid science with solid numbers. If they aren't turning moose or deer into wolf shit that means more live moose or deer.