Alberta Draws

[IronNoggin]

And the disease spreads....

Knee jerk reaction obviously.
I will continue to host Buddies from Alberta, as I do pretty much each & every fall.
And I will continue to push for opening the doors a tad more for our out-of-province brethren in the hunting clan down the road.

... This is pure politics, not wildlife and hunting management. AGPAC is doing nothing to increase hunt-able wildlife populations, they are simply managing hunting opportunity by slice and dice.

I guess it is this lack of transparency while hanging us out to dry that I am miffed at the most.
While it might not make a large difference, I cannot help but believe that were the actual numbers to be known, most Albertans would not only be surprised, but also be able to see through the smoke & mirrors game being played here. Unfortunately I do not believe that is about to happen until it is far to late to make any difference.

Are you in favour of this proposed change?

No Sir

Are you in favour of BC relaxing their NR licensing requirements?

As noted, this is something I previously lobbied for. And something I will most likely be doing again. So... Yes.

If you are in favour of easing restrictions on interprovincial hunting, how do we get on to that path where we all learn to give?

I am uncertain at this point. Many will and are reacting as I did in a knee jerk fashion - getting po'd over the perception of losing what one once took for granted. Perhaps the way to deal with it is to shrug that matter off, and get on with looking at our own situation, and how we might work that into an overall plan Canada wide. Again, I am not overly confident that would fly at this exact moment, but maybe once the dust settles down a bit...

Other than that, I am Wide Open to Suggestions!!!

Maybe it starts by defeating this proposal?

One can hope, but given the way it is being played, I am more than doubtful...

Cheers,
Nog

[Springer]

No TJ i can't afford Crack, Taxes in Alberta are getting too high for that.
I guess how i got that impression was through reading your articles in The Alberta Outdoorsman for years.The magazine you write articles for. I have read your comments throughout the years and what you have relayed back to the readers from the outcome of Alberta F&G decisions, not AGPAC So i suggested yourself as knowing more about this issue that is all, and that you may be a resource for more clarification on this.
My Public apologies if this is out of context of what was heard on the receiving end. there was no intent of stirring up crap !What would be my gain for doing that ?
In post #63 you reference changes coming. I also read this on page 8 of the Alberta Outdoorsman as well as the Hunting community i know that are all discussing this on the sidelines.
With your involvement of the Antelope fencing project etc i took it you were involved more with F&G than you are...

[sheephunterab]

Phil, all of this info is out there for the public to read. I've got no inside track or influence. I say again...zero. Unfortunately many people would rather gossip and fly off the handle than do a little digging for the facts. I was just trying to bring some context to this discussion by relaying the facts. Anyhow, apology accepted.

[Walking Buffalo]

WB have you run the numbers on the high odd draws or just the overall 2%? I have no idea what they are but am curious.

I'll try to dig up some of the older data that I was able to sneak out of the system, from around 2010-12.

I just made a request to F&W Policy for the data they provided to AGPAC for this discussion, specifically for a detailed breakdown of the NR Special license data.
We'll see how timely and transparent they will be.

This is what F&W included in the questionnaire.

"In 2016, approximately 1000 non-resident Canadian special license draw applications were made, resulting in 300 licenses purchased. Non-resident Aliens are currently prohibited from participating in special license draws in Alberta.

Other jurisdictions reserve their special license draw system for residents. Currently, there are approximately 435,000 draw applications made annually in Alberta, resulting in significant wait times for some high-demand draw choices. Over 84% of non-resident special license draw licenses awarded are for Antlered Moose and Antlered Mule Deer. "


I've asked if NR Trophy Sheep are included in this total.
If so, that's 372 of the 1000 applications.

84% of 300 licences where for Antlered Moose and Mule Deer, approx. 252 licences.

Two NR Bighorn sheep licences were issued.

That leaves 46 licences that went to a mix of Elk, Pronghorns, and Whitetails.




It is interesting that 1000 applications resulted in 300 licences.
628 applications for 298 licences if Sheep were included in the original numbers.

That is an incredibly high success rate which could only be maintained if the applicants were applying for low priority draws, Priority 1 on average, (two years of applying). Even if Sheep were not included, the success rate is still very high, a P2 on average.
This leads one to suspect that NR's are not obtaining many high priority Special Licences, looks like they are typically just trying to get a low priority tag and enjoy a hunt with their family and friends.

Looking forward to seeing how this further breaks down to each species and in relation to Resident applications.

[sheephunterab]

I suspect the number of NR applying for whitetail tags would be zero or close to it. I'd also suspect that elk would be quite low. I'm not sure the number of antelope tags issued in 2016 but 40 NR tags could be 5% or more and in some specific WMUs could easily run into 10% or higher. I suspect mule deer could be similar. I know there are at least two NR mule deer hunters in the zone I was drawn in this year out of a pool of 28 tags. There could be more I don't know. While the overall numbers are indeed very low, I suspect some specific WMUs have fairly high percentages. These stats kind of remind me of the way outfitters harvest is calculated. Perhaps we need to look at caps by WMU?

[Walking Buffalo]

I requested the data breakdown to the species and wmu level.

Yes, likely very few to no WT draws, I'll guess half of the remaining pool is elk and half pronghorns.
There were 678 Pronghorn licenses in 2016. 25 NR licenses would be 3.7%. I suspect the real number is even lower as it was back in 2010/11.

I would have no problem supporting a % cap on NR special licences by wmu, as long as the cap is exponentially higher than the proposed 0%.
5-10%, no problem. Just as I support having Landowner licenses capped, not eliminated.

And if Alberta keeps NR special licences, it should be time to have BC follow suit with something more than a few words on a forum.


If F&W is forthcoming with the data, I'll happily compile it and share with all.
I suspect few people actually realize how few NR are hunting through the draw system.
Maybe an informed opinion will differ from one comprised from conjecture.

[IronNoggin]

... And if Alberta keeps NR special licences, it should be time to have BC follow suit with something more than a few words on a forum...

I concur with everything you have said here.
And I am willing to commit towards working on BC "following suit" should Alberta keep those draws open.

As for expecting F&W to be forthcoming, I am not really holding my breath.
I do hope for a pleasant surprise, but surprise it would be.
And of course I wish you All The Best in that pursuit!

Cheers & Thanks,
Nog

[Mule Buck]

Some draw wait times in Alberta are an obvious issue. Most draws are taking longer every time you are drawn. Some are becoming impossible.
There are many things that could be changed to help this. Of course removing non residents in the draw are one of these changes.
At least they are thinking of ways to improve the system and decrease wait times. It's a start of something that is long overdue.

[Walking Buffalo]

Some draw wait times in Alberta are an obvious issue. Most draws are taking longer every time you are drawn. Some are becoming impossible.
There are many things that could be changed to help this. Of course removing non residents in the draw are one of these changes.
At least they are thinking of ways to improve the system and decrease wait times. It's a start of something that is long overdue.

Not sure if I should laugh or cry.

This is the first MAJOR hunting policy review in the last 30 years, and likely for decades going ahead.

Eliminating NR and Landowner licences are the ONLY changes that has been proposed to help deal with the Draw situation.

This isn't a start, this is an end.

[Mule Buck]

If you say so. I see it differently.
When Alberta residents see no chance of their children pulling a tag, they push change. And this is the result. Not the end, but the beginning.
It would be even more effective if we had an Alberta hunters association that sought and disseminated the population, harvest, draw, outfitter, and landowner data. Then it wouldn't be such a mystery.