First nations traditional territory

[wideopenthrottle]

Wow your ignorance of history surprises me....yes losers were killed off...like as in all of them ...in many many eons of history...do you know anything about the scottish highland clearances..."rebels" were killed and sold into slavery to clear the land of peasants....

Irish peasants were not needed in such high numbers to grow grain as they were needed to grow potatoes so they were starved to death in spite of plentiful food being grown...

if if you can find it, read "Soil and Soul" by Alastair McIntosh....it is one of the first books to change my "white guilt" to annoyance

[wideopenthrottle]

I guess my point is that there have been many ways to deal with "locals" when conquering lands...the Canadian natives actually got treated better than many others that are no longer around to complain...even our natives killed off rival tribes even women and children
i really wish we could just put the violence and racism behind us instead of propagating it further we are all in the same tribe now as Canadians

[sawmill]

I don`t have white guilt. I`m not a Catholic priest. I don`t even have Catholic guilt. Not a Dogan. I have no guilt whatsoever. Never screwed anybody over, never stole land (or anything else) never picked on the little guys at school. I AM sick of every whining Indian, LGBTQ( not sure what all the letters stand for) and every body else who wants special considerations because...actually don`t know why. I don`t get special breaks, a straight white 5 gen Canadian. I`m lucky if I get a small tax return check once a year. If I fall down nobody rushes to save my white ass with programs and support.
Paint a rainbow crosswalk on my street, dare you. Try to repo my hard earned paid for property because your ancestor pooped there a million years ago.. Yeah, luck with that. If I dig up strange bones while gardening...they go in my collection of cool shit. Bad enough our tax dollars go to a killer terrorist ,be damned if I have to like it or any other stupid snowflake shit that`s flying around these days. But, be as sensitive as you want, just don`t come to my house and expect a cold drink. I am SICK of this touchy feely shit.

[VFX_man]

please.....that is so dumb. No organization of people ever has taken over an other and just killed them all. That, even as an ideology is incredibly rare, but let's start by just saying, seldom does one society even have the resources to conduct such an exercise on an other. The second point, is that typically the other society being consumed by the larger is typically viewed at some point as a resource itself to allow for future expansion.

the British isles are actually a perfect example of the latter, which ultimately continued out to the world. In fact their system of law, which puts is derived, was their greatest weapon- as it is ours.

Very sad to be a human reading our track record worldwide . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

[Pemby_mess]

Wow your ignorance of history surprises me....yes losers were killed off...like as in all of them ...in many many eons of history...do you know anything about the scottish highland clearances..."rebels" were killed and sold into slavery to clear the land of peasants....

Irish peasants were not needed in such high numbers to grow grain as they were needed to grow potatoes so they were starved to death in spite of plentiful food being grown...

if if you can find it, read "Soil and Soul" by Alastair McIntosh....it is one of the first books to change my "white guilt" to annoyance

I'd suggest that's it's you who needs to revisit his Canadian history. Conquering was done all over, by a variety of means including the use of incredible violence. That is true here in Canada as much as anywhere else - yes that's true. However you've ignored some important details:

violence (acts or threats) is one of many negotiation strategies. When Canada was being settled we primarily used lawful negotiation over violence for good reason. it was our best tool to negotiate with - far more efficient them the bloody two way risk that warfare presents. It could be argued, that without using law as a tool of conquest, we may not have had the resources to win a warfare campaign here in the North. Certainly confederation as the country of Canada would not have been the result. Autonomous Aboriginal nations were doomed as soon as boats from the west landed in the new world. That's not really up for dispute. However if we had attempted to initiate a campaign of slaughter, slavery, and extermination, we would probably have had our asses handed to us in many battles and ultimately ended up as a) part of the United States b) a conglomeration of failed French colonies of c) a group of failed colonies eventually fallen to the Soviets. Canada was born through trading consideration for various benefits.

you're argument seems to be that FN shouldn't complain and that we shouldn't feel bad for their position because many people around the world faced similar if not worse circumstances. You also seem to infer that we only let them get away with complaining at all or empathize with them for some notion of pity and/or white guilt.

That's an argument that's based on a fundamental logical fallacy known as an appeal to emotion. I'm here to tell you, that I have no cultural guilt whatsoever, nor do I pity FN yet I still argue against a continuance in our colonial mentality. Why? Out of compassion and altruism? No - it's out of reason, pure and simple. the law doesn't generally incorporate emotional fallacies into its decisions either, so you would lose in court if you were trying to use your reasoning as the Crown's position on the matter.

An other thing about the variant of British Common Law that we use to conduct our society; is that it works around the concept of precedent. That means if our colonial conduct of not honoring contracts, improperly imprisoning citizens, sterilizing them, kidnapping their kids and the like was found to be legal, without repercussion, it will now be applied to other laws that affect you - one law for all, right? So if the Crown's decision to round up its citizens and intern them while distributing their land without consideration was found to be justified, I should be able to do the same with your land, or any other property you own. F#ck it! Why do anything legally at all. I certainly wouldn't if the only test was to prove that I benefited and/or that I was momentarily stronger than my opponent.

if we're going to claim that we live in a free law based society, it of utmost importance that the state is allowed to be found accountable. Unfortunately where the state is found to have erred and compensation is due - the state is us.

the solution is negotiate ourselves into a position that all parties can live with and one in which we are both better off before we started.

[wideopenthrottle]

Great link

[wideopenthrottle]

It was justified when taking away Japanese Canadian property in ww2....I am having trouble with your position Pemba as it seems to move around....I don't believe we need a Canadian appartied to right the wrongs...no special status will ever bring us together only drive us apart...humans are tribal and protect their own...as equal Canadians we can work together...

[Surrey Boy]

Gaze on my Privilege and Despair!

So much to troll, so little time.

Time to get a short haircut and a pair of Doc Martens.

[Pemby_mess]

It was justified when taking away Japanese Canadian property in ww2....I am having trouble with your position Pemba as it seems to move around....I don't believe we need a Canadian appartied to right the wrongs...no special status will ever bring us together only drive us apart...humans are tribal and protect their own...as equal Canadians we can work together...

Dont worry WOT, I think you're starting to get it.........

(WOT -It was justified when taking away Japanese Canadian property in ww2)

Was it? Has that been legally tested?

Anyways, I don't see any avenue in our legal system for the legal confiscation of their property, but perhaps, their temporary internment given the sentiment of the day and the invocation of extraordinary measures during a war declaration. But who's to say the Japanese won't get together and come after their property at some point in the future?

The he situation with most FN is different by orders of magnitude. They, despite all odds have maintained their distinct status as individual nations and are banned together asking for their property back. They had negotiated special status into agreements that are still legally binding, yet were *******ized through the creation of the Indian Act, modified through multiple iterations. BTW, Give that piece of legislation a scan and see if you continue to come away with the notion that they're advantaged people in our society. They also happen to be able to prove that as distinct nations, they held the original title on much of the land in question. The crown cannot prove that there was any consideration exchanged for use of this land.

I assure you: using "I took his wallet because I had a gun and he was defenseless" is not a defence that would find fav our with Canadian courts.

[Dannybuoy]

I don`t have white guilt. I`m not a Catholic priest. I don`t even have Catholic guilt. Not a Dogan. I have no guilt whatsoever. Never screwed anybody over, never stole land (or anything else) never picked on the little guys at school. I AM sick of every whining Indian, LGBTQ( not sure what all the letters stand for) and every body else who wants special considerations because...actually don`t know why. I don`t get special breaks, a straight white 5 gen Canadian. I`m lucky if I get a small tax return check once a year. If I fall down nobody rushes to save my white ass with programs and support.
Paint a rainbow crosswalk on my street, dare you. Try to repo my hard earned paid for property because your ancestor pooped there a million years ago.. Yeah, luck with that. If I dig up strange bones while gardening...they go in my collection of cool shit. Bad enough our tax dollars go to a killer terrorist ,be damned if I have to like it or any other stupid snowflake shit that`s flying around these days. But, be as sensitive as you want, just don`t come to my house and expect a cold drink. I am SICK of this touchy feely shit.

BEST Post in this thread .... You & I would get along just fine ! Ever want to get out on Kootenay lake with a box of cold ones , you are welcome to give me a shout .