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Thread: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

  1. #1
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    Jun 2010
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    Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    I bought bought myself a 45-70 to try something different then a slug gun, for a camp gun and a backup for grizzly bear and the like. I'm not reloading, I just want to buy something off the shelf that's hard hitting at close range. Less then 80yrds.
    Does anyone have real world exp with bullet choice?
    I'm currently shooting Hornady LEVERevolution 325gr ftx to get the feel of the gun but don't have an opinion on stopping power of such a cartridge yet.
    Last edited by allan; 05-12-2017 at 10:06 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Nov 2005
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    4,804

    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    I was disappointed with some jacketed bullets that were supposed to be designed for much hotter cartridges. They turned inside-out on deer sized game. The core separated from the jacket giving poor penetration, adequate but messy on deer but probably not on hasty oblique shots on dangerous game. Perhaps I got a bad batch? I would suggest hard cast bullets which don't expand much, but instead penetrate and take advantage of the already ample .458 calibre.

  4. #3
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    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    Something to think about is the amount of energy being delivered to the animal. When I bought my 4570 I was told to shoot the hsm bear loads which consists of a 430 (I believe) grain hard cast lead bullet. People like these because they will penetrate anything. I tested them out on 12-16" rounds of wet pine and they would go in 45 cal and sail right through coming out about 46 cal. Now penetration is great but not when the bullet makes a pass through. Not on dangerous game. You want every ounce of energy expelled in the animal. The 325 jacketed bullet expands rapidly on impact and will sometimes fragment creating insane amounts of hydrostatic shock. This in most cases will destroy the animals central nervous system giving you that bang flop effect. The animal doesn't die on impact but when you deliver that hydrostatic shock and kill the centrally nervous system the bear gets knocked out and essentially bleeds out while it's knocked out and never wakes up. You can see the excessive wound channels from jacketed bullets when gutting. The fragments and hydrostatic shock can create wound channels 12 times the caliber size. You won't see that with a hard cast.
    Anyways just my 2 cents. Something to think about

  5. #4
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    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    Eve uses the Leverevolution cartridges & I the 420 & 540 Garretts.
    The 420 for general hunting & the 540 for grizzly protection. I went to Seattle area to buy the cartridges.
    It's been proven many times that the 540 Garretts or equivalent load is hard to beat when faced with a grizzly charge. One shot will penetrate lengthwise through the bear with devastating damage.
    Garrett sold his business to a Texas Co.
    If I remember CampCook loads his own & he may be able to help you.
    Also remember when using the 45/70 for bear protection an unscoped rifle is a better option.

    “People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an election.” -Otto von Bismarck
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein


  6. #5
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    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    No mammal can close a 1/2 inch wound channel. Go hard cast all the way. Wound channels kill, example and archery
    BCWF
    VIPDC

  7. #6
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    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    HSM Bear loads from cabelas or buffalo bore from Wanstalls.

  8. #7
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    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    I used to Shoot a lot of 45-70 Gov and 450 Marlin with 250 gr to 540 gr bullets - The Big 535 and 540 cast bullets will pass lenght way thru a bear or just about any other animal - The 525 gr Bear Tooth Pile Driver at 1665 fps out of my 18.5" barreded guide gun being my favourite . Another fav is a 420 cast at 1980 fps out of the same gun. BUT here is a Nice bullet that has a LOT les recoil and it will HOLD together and penetrate like a big cast bullet - this may SURPRISE some of you 45-70 guys but i have shot them into some pretty hd FIR and they go a long ways in ! and HOLD nearly 100 % together ! You Ready ! its the

    45-70 Government with the Hornady 250 GR MONOFLEX Bullet !

    Cheers RJ

  9. #8
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    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    Quote Originally Posted by REMINGTON JIM View Post
    I used to Shoot a lot of 45-70 Gov and 450 Marlin with 250 gr to 540 gr bullets - The Big 535 and 540 cast bullets will pass lenght way thru a bear or just about any other animal - The 525 gr Bear Tooth Pile Driver at 1665 fps out of my 18.5" barreded guide gun being my favourite . Another fav is a 420 cast at 1980 fps out of the same gun. BUT here is a Nice bullet that has a LOT les recoil and it will HOLD together and penetrate like a big cast bullet - this may SURPRISE some of you 45-70 guys but i have shot them into some pretty hd FIR and they go a long ways in ! and HOLD nearly 100 % together ! You Ready ! its the

    45-70 Government with the Hornady 250 GR MONOFLEX Bullet !


    Cheers RJ
    How would you compare the hornady 250gr to the 325gr? I simply bought the 325gr cause it was the cheapest on the shelf? I found the 325gr easy to shoot so far.

  10. #9
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    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    Avoid the 405gr Remington ammo, check out these radar velocity from a 18.5" Marlin

    Code:
    Stats - Average 1038.79 fps
    Stats - Highest 1091.71 fps
    Stats - Lowest 1005.91 fps
    Stats - Ext. Spread 85.8 fps
    Stats - Std. Dev 33.64 fps
    Shot ID V0 V50 V100 V150 V200 V250 Ke0 Ke50 Ke100 Ke150 Ke200 Ke250 PF50 Proj. Weight Date Time
    1 1092 1058 0 0 0 0 1071 1005 0 0 0 0 428.49 405 5/11/17 20:30:30
    2 1006 981 0 0 0 0 909 865 0 0 0 0 397.31 405 5/11/17 20:30:50
    3 1018 992 0 0 0 0 931 884 0 0 0 0 401.76 405 5/11/17 20:31:45
    4 1049 1020 0 0 0 0 990 935 0 0 0 0 413.1 405 5/11/17 20:32:07
    5 1029 1001 0 0 0 0 951 900 0 0 0 0 405.41 405 5/11/17 20:32:30

    I'd suggest tracking down some HSM Bear Load or Buffalo Bore hard cast +P ammo in the 400gr + range
    "If you ever go into the bush, there are grizzly bears lurking behind just about every bush, waiting to pounce, so you need a powerful gun, with huge bullets" - Gatehouse ~ 2004

  11. #10
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    Re: Bullet choice 45-70 bear defense

    Quote Originally Posted by todbartell View Post
    Avoid the 405gr Remington ammo, check out these radar velocity from a 18.5" Marlin

    Code:
    Stats - Average 1038.79 fps
    Stats - Highest 1091.71 fps
    Stats - Lowest 1005.91 fps
    Stats - Ext. Spread 85.8 fps
    Stats - Std. Dev 33.64 fps
    Shot ID V0 V50 V100 V150 V200 V250 Ke0 Ke50 Ke100 Ke150 Ke200 Ke250 PF50 Proj. Weight Date Time
    1 1092 1058 0 0 0 0 1071 1005 0 0 0 0 428.49 405 5/11/17 20:30:30
    2 1006 981 0 0 0 0 909 865 0 0 0 0 397.31 405 5/11/17 20:30:50
    3 1018 992 0 0 0 0 931 884 0 0 0 0 401.76 405 5/11/17 20:31:45
    4 1049 1020 0 0 0 0 990 935 0 0 0 0 413.1 405 5/11/17 20:32:07
    5 1029 1001 0 0 0 0 951 900 0 0 0 0 405.41 405 5/11/17 20:32:30

    I'd suggest tracking down some HSM Bear Load or Buffalo Bore hard cast +P ammo in the 400gr + range
    Sorry I'm not going to pretend to know what the chart means, It appears to me that the velocity seems a bit slow and inconsistent?

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