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Thread: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    148

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpotzold View Post
    The main reason. They remind me of dogs.

    It all started when I was still a teen surveying mining claims in the remote Yukon wilderness. A FN guy in the next door tent camp stole a wolf pup near Pelly River & we watched it grow. The pup behaved similar to a dog except for the ravenous appetite. It was also a 1 man dog. They even took him for a helicopter ride in the mountains.

    I have approached more than a few wolves while hunting & even had a staring match with a huge wolf from less than 100 feet. It was like meeting a huge German shepherd. No problem.

    Was surrounded by a large pack while staying in a doorless shack near Germansen. They were after 2 moose.

    Stayed in Whitehorse for a while in the 60's & it seemed like every yard had part or a pure wolf in it.

    I have also walked up to coyotes & will have to dig up some old photos.
    We even named one of our favourite hunting roads REX ROAD. Eve named the handsome & very large coyote REX that we saw at least a couple of times. Have a photo somewhere.

    You know you're in the wilderness when you hear that melancholy sound of the wolves howling.

    And from my experience the bears not the wolves are a major reason for the declining game numbers.
    My limited experience shows this to be absolutely false.
    Here on Vancouver Island there is still good bear hunting but bear numbers are significantly down at the moment.
    I agree the odd bear does become accustomed to killing ungulates ,bears that predate livestock habitually prove this.

    No one wants to do anything about it but wolves are the problem.
    Parts of Vancouver Island are horrible again.

  2. #52
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    Jul 2005
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    VANCOUVER
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    6,861

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Quote Originally Posted by souwester View Post
    My limited experience shows this to be absolutely false.
    Here on Vancouver Island there is still good bear hunting but bear numbers are significantly down at the moment.
    I agree the odd bear does become accustomed to killing ungulates ,bears that predate livestock habitually prove this.

    No one wants to do anything about it but wolves are the problem.
    Parts of Vancouver Island are horrible again.
    I beg to differ!

    Based on experience from the areas we hunt.

    I’m convinced that bears are the major part of the equation in the dwindling moose numbers in some region 5 management areas where we mostly hunt. Been hunting mostly the 5-03 & some in 5-04 areas for 50 years. On a recent hunting trip saw 14 black bears in about 2 days & only a few fresh moose signs & yes we covered a large area both by road & by foot. Also according to other hunters we met the black bear numbers are way up from about 10 years ago.
    Wolves are a rare sight in the area.

    No doubt wolves kill many moose in BC but they have been doing it for eons. They probably seek out the vulnerable(old,sick..)first.

    According to BC govt there are approximately 8500 wolves in BC but could be as low as 5300-not much different from about 30 years ago. There are close to 180,000 black/grizzly in BC.-no doubt a conservative estimate.

    It’s well known that the bears seek out & kill up to ˝ of the newborn.


    Researchers found that brown bears ate a lot more caribou and moose calves than was previously believed-one brown bear killed 44 calves in 25 days
    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/...ootage-reveals

    Alaskans kill bears to save moose
    Research indicates that predation by bears is playing a significant role in preventing the moose population from increasing. A wolf control program has been in effect in the unit since 2004 but reducing wolf numbers has not had a noticeable effect on the moose population,
    http://georgesoutdoornews.bangordailynews.com/2014/10/27/maine-woods/alaskans-kill-bears-to-save-moose/
    “People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an election.” -Otto von Bismarck
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.-Albert Einstein


  3. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Yucatan Mexico
    Posts
    14,832

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Quote Originally Posted by souwester View Post
    My limited experience shows this to be absolutely false.
    Here on Vancouver Island there is still good bear hunting but bear numbers are significantly down at the moment.
    I agree the odd bear does become accustomed to killing ungulates ,bears that predate livestock habitually prove this.

    No one wants to do anything about it but wolves are the problem.
    Parts of Vancouver Island are horrible again.
    Quote Originally Posted by mpotzold View Post
    I beg to differ!

    Based on experience from the areas we hunt.

    I’m convinced that bears are the major part of the equation in the dwindling moose numbers in some region 5 management areas where we mostly hunt. Been hunting mostly the 5-03 & some in 5-04 areas for 50 years. On a recent hunting trip saw 14 black bears in about 2 days & only a few fresh moose signs & yes we covered a large area both by road & by foot. Also according to other hunters we met the black bear numbers are way up from about 10 years ago.
    Wolves are a rare sight in the area.

    No doubt wolves kill many moose in BC but they have been doing it for eons. They probably seek out the vulnerable(old,sick..)first.

    According to BC govt there are approximately 8500 wolves in BC but could be as low as 5300-not much different from about 30 years ago. There are close to 180,000 black/grizzly in BC.-no doubt a conservative estimate.

    It’s well known that the bears seek out & kill up to ˝ of the newborn.


    Researchers found that brown bears ate a lot more caribou and moose calves than was previously believed-one brown bear killed 44 calves in 25 days
    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/...ootage-reveals

    Alaskans kill bears to save moose
    Research indicates that predation by bears is playing a significant role in preventing the moose population from increasing. A wolf control program has been in effect in the unit since 2004 but reducing wolf numbers has not had a noticeable effect on the moose population,
    http://georgesoutdoornews.bangordailynews.com/2014/10/27/maine-woods/alaskans-kill-bears-to-save-moose/
    And this is why each area must be studied. Different locations can have different factors driving populations.
    https://oceola.ca/
    http://bcwf.net/index.php
    http://www.wildsheepsociety.net/

    I Give my Heart to my Family....
    My Mind to my Work.......
    But My Soul Belongs to the Mountains.....

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,626

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Back when i was a youngster in the yukon i knew a couple of bushmen that routinely shot every bear they saw, regardless of season or limits.Those guys were in to helping ungulates. Not saying they were right.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    148

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Mpotzold I don't personally believe the numbers or that the studies presented are not biased and or flawed.
    I do however respect that you have formed an opinion on whats happening in an area based on your own personal experience.That is good, we need more of that even if we disagree.

  6. #56
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    Mar 2006
    Location
    Yucatan Mexico
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    14,832

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher-Dude View Post
    Yup, I hunt black bear every spring and grizzly when I get drawn.

    An interesting presentation at the BCWF AGM by grizzly bear bio Clayton Lamb showed a graph of an analysis of 1,000 g-bear scats, that challenged many preconceived notions.

    It showed that calving/fawning season, when we assume that g-bears gobble down lots of babies, was actually one of the lowest times for the presence of ungulate indicators in the scat. Most of the positive indicators were in the fall (gut pile time) and in the early spring (winter kill carrion time).

    Yes, g-bears do kill and eat ungulates whenever they can, and they do eat fawns and calves, but it seemed that the massive mortality rate we were expecting May - July just wasn't there.
    I wonder if a good chunk of this study was conducted when elk recruitment in the East Kootenays started to tank?
    https://oceola.ca/
    http://bcwf.net/index.php
    http://www.wildsheepsociety.net/

    I Give my Heart to my Family....
    My Mind to my Work.......
    But My Soul Belongs to the Mountains.....

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,047

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Seen a mother black bear with 4 cubs the other day, 3 blacks and one was brown. Never seen a bear with more than 2 cubs before.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    6-09
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    1,217

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    I have twice seen black bear sows with 5 cubs.

  9. #59
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    Mar 2004
    Location
    N. Okanagan
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    14,182

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Sheep Steve View Post
    Different locations can have different factors driving populations.
    pre-zackerly. Bears are omnivores and opportunists and territorial. Any bear that has a protein based buffet laid out in his home turf will make the choices that suit him and his frame of mind and nutritional needs.

    And this is why each area must be studied
    To what end? To say Bear A eats meat and Bear B eats greens
    Studies are good to get students ejumacated, but unfortunately seldom do the results end up in on-the-ground benefits.

    IIRC the Alaska cull is concentrated on the ungulate calving range, likely the very spot the bear would choose a protein diet.
    The same reason I hunt predators in the same place I hunt deer.........call me selfish )
    Never say whoa in the middle of a mud hole

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    148

    Re: Ungulate Saviors ...... Do you contribute?

    Show me a BC study NOT AMERICAN ,where a bear population model has "prey biomass" as a factor in the equation.

    Show me a chart that with a linear curve that proves bear populations are directly related to ungulate populations From a reputable BC scientist or wildlife tech.

    How come on the mainland coast in areas of high bear density both grizzly and blacks co -exist fine with blacktails and populations only seem to crash when wolves disperse into areas?
    How come there was success in increasing blacktail densities in the Nimpkish area on Vancouver island when a wolf program was implemented?That Area has high bear density.

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