Hunting with lead free bullets

[Pioneerman]

If you look at Hornady web site the 150 gr GMX for 308 is showing effective speed out to about 450 yards So guess it depends on what distances you hope to be shooting. Also this is expansion on flesh not counting bone so if you hit a shoulder at 500 it will still expand, this is how their chart works , or at least when they told me when I called. Plus if you want to use a cheaper round for practice the sst is same design as GMX and can expect same ballistics in range or field use.

[Boner]

Monometals need a minimum 2000fps to expand properly, so more kinetic energy retained by greater mass is undone by sacrificing muzzle velocity. Effective range is limited to the point whereat the bullet slows below 2000fps, rather than 1200 ft-lb.

Hornady LeveRevolution 45-70 has overcome this, but the other side of that equation is that those bullets could not be fired from a 460 Weatherby and still hold together. Monoliths have a narrower range of efficacy than lead jacketed bullets.

Fair enough. I always went by the 1800 fps that Barnes claimed, but(not the best example) if you punch the numbers in for Barnes 308 win factory made bullets at their posted speed of 2700 fps (I know every rifle will have a different number, probably lower) you can stretch it out to 425 yards and still be above the 2000 fps threshold.

This is why I skip the 150 ttsx altogether and play with the 130's and 168's. I feel the 150's are redundant.

[caddisguy]

I am a huge fan of lead. I recall reading a study a while and just looked it up that put my mind at least so I just googled again... study shows people eating wild game regularly had approx 50% more lead in their blood than people who do not eat wild game, but average levels were 1.27 micrograms per deciliter (compared with 0.84 with those who did not eat wild game) which is WAY below the CDC's guideline of 10 micrograms per deciliter.

There is certainly an environmental incentive to go lead-free (and I agree with lead-free shot when migratory bird hunting) but I don't think shooting big game with lead is bad for anything and it does a great job. Blasting 1000 target rounds at clays over a cut block probably isn't good though.

Disclaimer: my view points might be a little off due to lead contamination

[Ajsawden]

I have shot 168gr tsxs from my 30-06 for 9 years now. If I hit what I'm aiming it (buck fever has not got easier with age) then it's dead, period. Last fall it Dropped a bull moose running towards me like a sack of hammers and was First tsx recovery. Bullet stopped shortly after complete severing of spine. One pedal sheared, otherwise perfect expansion. Also just started shooting 150gr nosler etips from my 280. All did their job brilliantly, no concerns.

[ajr5406]

For all around hunting out of a 30-06, I have been using 165gr lead core bullets. If I were to switch to TTSX, would you recommend going down to 150gr?

[Darksith]

the far right is what GMX bullets do at 2000fps...thats not acceptable to me. The second from the right is 2700 fps, which is pretty close to minimum desired expansion


Same thing again...its about max damage, and 9/10 outta 10 shot placement will get the job done, but when you miss the spot by just a hair, you want enough damage absorbed in the animal to still put it down...that 1/10 times haunts a guy for a long time. Understand your bullet, your gun, and your velocities down range. Make the right choice, and sometimes its just easier to bring a different type of bullet when you leave the house.

[todbartell]

308 I would look at the 150gr TTSX. That's what I've been using in my Ruger m77 GSR

[Lionhill]

Some lite reading for your decision on using lead:

A significant International Symposium was organized in Brussels on 20 October 2015 by the Association ofEuropean Manufacturers of Sporting Ammunition (AFEMS) and the World Forum on Shooting Activities(WFSA).The Symposium focused on the sustainable use of lead in ammunition and its impact on both theenvironment and human health. The Symposium also provided an overview of the ballistic features of bothlead and non-lead ammunition and assessed the current legislation at the European and International level.Background informationLead is present naturally in a variety of forms, but only metallic lead is used in sport shooting and huntingammunition.The use of lead metal is highly sustainable because it can be recycled an infinite number of times and theavailable technologies make the process economically advantageous. It has been used in the ammunitionindustry for centuries because it possesses excellent ballistic features and is highly cost effective. No othermaterial can guarantee the same results in terms of performance and sustainability.The use of lead in ammunition is already highly regulated and its proper management minimizes thepossible negative impacts on environment and health. Several scientific studies and research papers showthat metallic lead in ammunition has no significant impact on human health and the environment ascompared to other forms of lead. For example, lead fragments in game meat, if ingested, cannot bedirectly absorbed by the human body because they are in metallic form. By comparison, food consumed inlarger quantities and by the general population, such as cereals, dairy products, vegetables and tap water,have the greatest impact on human dietary exposure to lead. Moreover lead shot and projectiles used inboth indoor and outdoor shooting ranges are regularly collected and recycled.Restrictions in the use of lead in ammunition would inevitably damage both hunting, a necessaryprerequisite in game management as well as a traditional cultural practice, and sport shooting, a highlydisciplined activity which increasingly involves young people and women.

The symposium was attended by 110 delegates, including journalists, politicians, scientists, members ofenvironmental institutions, hunting and sport shooting organizations and food agencies.Three influential keynotes speakers from the European Parliament and the European Commissiondescribed the current position and future strategies of the European regulatory bodies, thus giving furthersignificance to the event.

Sixteen speakers covered every conceivable aspect of lead in civilian ammunition, with presentationsorganized into five different panels: environment, legal issues, ballistics, human health and other issues.Three expert journalists managed the lively and animated debates which followed the presentations as wellas sharing their own assessment of the issues.The Symposium opened with a welcome address from Mr Torbjörn Lindskog (AFEMS President) whowelcomed participants and introduced the first keynote speaker, Ms Natalie Pauwels (DG ENVI), whopresented the EU Environment Policy priorities over the coming years. The afternoon session was openedby Mr Herbert Keusgen (WFSA President) followed by a keynote address from Ms Renata Briano (VicePresident of the EU Parliamentary Intergroup “Biodiversity, Hunting and Countryside”).Panel 1: Environment (Speakers: Patterson – Verdonck – Göttlein; Moderator: James Crisp)Mr Rick Patterson (SAAMI Executive Director) spoke about the California Condor whose blood lead levelsand population number did not change despite the introduction in 2008 of a ban on lead huntingammunition and 99% compliance with the ban.Mr Frederik Verdonck (ARCHE Consultant) presented the results of experiments which were carried out todemonstrate the magnitude of the effects of lead shot ingestion on population size, growth, and extinctionof upland avian species that ingest these substances. The results suggested that lead shot can causepoisoning of individual birds but they have no significant impact on population level.Mr Axel Gottlein (Professor for Forest Nutrition and Water Resources at the Technische Universität ofMünchen) presented the results of a comparative assessment of the environmental impacts of differenttypes of bullets.

....In his presentation, Mr Klaus-Hinnerk Baasch (Doctor, Toxicology) explained that, despite several concernsabout human health and wildlife, lead contained in ammunition has no relevance to consumer protection,species protection or the environment.Mr Christer Holmgren (Senior Advisor at SEPA) presented the methodology and results of his recent study,‘Lead in Game Meat’, which showed that only 1-2% of present lead metal fragments are converted tobioaccessible forms in the human gastrointestinal tract.Mr Pier Mannucci Mannucci (Scientific Director at the Policlinico Hospital Foundation of Milan) reviewedthe case-control study of the Swiss Public Health Office, showing that there is no risk of a significantincrease in the body burden of lead for the average consumer of wild game hunted using lead ammunition.A similar case control study is now being conducted in Italy.Mr Holger Von Stetten (Doctor, Internal Medicine) stressed once again that banning lead huntingammunition does not reduce the lead pollution of the total population. Human dietary exposure to leadamong consumers occurs largely through the most commonly eaten foods and only in a very small partthrough game.

Complete report: http://www.afems.org/download/member...um.rev_ENG.pdf

[Cdog]

Wow, the feedback has been awesome! Everybody has a strong opinion! I read that copper bullets like a slower twist rate so I am wondering how my 1:10 twist would work with 150 gr ttsx using H4895. I will have to experiment at the range with different grain charges... any recommendations?

[Bugle M In]

Guess it is just one of the things you have to try for yourself...
Shot placement is "always the major factor"....1st.
Hit the right spot, then ya, a lead free bullet will work perfectly, and, the benefit is "lead free contamination".
But,
Any poorly placed shot, is just that...results quite often in poor outcomes in killing.
Doesn't matter what you shoot then, lead or lead free.
And then there are those in between shot placements....???
I used the Win XP3, they have lead with a plastic tip, and they work great when hitting the mark...but,
there have been times when they just punch thru with little damage, generally from a shot passed thru an area
without bone (I always try to hit just on the outside edge, back of the shoulder line...so no bone really).
So, when that happens, I find the bullet very "unreliable".
Sometimes I think the plastic tip makes the situation worse....I don't know?
And, the fact that they have a insert in them to make them mushroom less, but retain a ton of weight like the
nosler partion....sort of..??
I think at times they don't expand like a true "accubond" will, and react like a " copper bullet"...IMO

What I am trying to say, in my opinion, if you are going to use those complete copper bullets, you would most
likely need to accept to change your "aim point"....meaning you have to aim "right into the shoulder".
That way you are utilizing the bullet to it's "maximum potential".
It's something I am thinking to reconsider as well (aiming into the shoulder), it's just that I don't like to
ruin the meat, so that is why I am behind the shoulder rear edge line....but it does mean that you will only
have the tip portion of the heart to hit, but, you will obliterate the liver.
A little to far behind that, it becomes less and less effective.
It's these softer tissue shot placements that "I feel" have better results using a bonded bullet (lead).

So, in a nutshell, using copper, aim for bone, and it should work great, bullet retains more weight, thus more
effective, but you will lose meat, but, no lead in it.
And a bad shot placement will lead to very poor results...IMO.

Where lead may give you a slight advantage in that category...IMO
Lead gives you some room for those in between shot placements, and, better results if you are not aiming for bone,
and wanting to recover as much meat as possible, but, you may consume a little lead...

Aim for bone, and don't let the shot distance get way out there.....That's just my opinion