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Thread: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

  1. #51
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    Quote Originally Posted by yama49 View Post
    Those are pretty strong Statement, what do you do to help wild sheep?
    Buy tags, spend thousands on gear and trips, try to inform the naysayer non-hunters on the subject.
    What the government does with the hundreds of thousands I pay in taxes is, for the most part, out of my hands?
    As for the greasy part, as stated supporting such actions is confirmation enough?

    On a side note, I have heard some pretty greasy stories regarding outfitter actions in the area I hunt wild sheep. If I could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt you're thoughts on such outfitter/guides may be changed.

    Not saying I have the answer, but the entire collaboration smells fishy...
    Last edited by .264winmag; 03-13-2017 at 08:52 PM.
    The only advantage to a light rifle is it's weight, all other advantages go to the heavier rifle..

  2. #52
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    Quote Originally Posted by yama49 View Post
    Sooner we realize, we have to all work TOGETHER, the sooner bc, wildlife will benefit.
    I totally agree, the WSS is an excellent organization that does great things for our sheep, no doubt! I just find it hard to believe that they've been doing business with a well known convicted poacher for many years and nobody within the club has voiced an opinion regarding his reputation, it's very well documented! Is the list of reputable outfits so thin that they have to deal with guys like him?? K

  3. #53
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    Quote Originally Posted by KodiakHntr View Post
    I don't think RO's post has anything to do with volunteer organizational structure of membership.
    I DO think it has to do with the fact that a convicted poacher donated a hunt (as per the first line, right in the hunt description, "donated by") to an organization that deals with sheep hunting. Probably the highest level of scrutiny for any group of hunters there is in BC.

    Now personally, were I to bid and win such a hunt, I would DAMN sure want to know that the outfitter had previous convictions for wildlife violations!
    Some guys take personal ethics and morality seriously. And I would bet a beer that folks like that would be pretty damn unhappy to find out after they'd paid good money for a hunt, that their outfitter plays fast and dirty with wildlife laws.

    By simply allowing a convicted (not "alleged", not "under investigation", not "person of interest in this case", convicted) poacher to donate a hunt where you auction it in good faith to people that put their money exactly where their mouths are because they are passionate about the species and want to support wild sheep in BC, that simply leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths.....

    People expect that the outfitters who have donated hunts to this organization for the sole purpose of raising money for wild sheep to be above reproach. They expect that the WSS has vetted those outfitters and not found anything to be lacking, and that a person can be confident that they are going on a top notch hunt, with individuals that have a top quality outfit.

    But that's just my opinion. I guess some folks would rather just let themselves get blinded by the money.
    THIS ^^^^^^^^^ imo is how I feel as well

  4. #54
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverOtter View Post
    Absolutely. The more critters that residents can help put on the hillsides, the more foreigners can come blast. The allotment switcharoo sent a loud and clear message for anyone with "doubts" about that.

    Wonder who's gonna be around to try and fix it when all the animals and MONEY is gone? Foreigners??
    Are all wildlife enhancing projects in BC based on resident funding?

  5. #55
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    Quote Originally Posted by yama49 View Post
    Those are pretty strong Statement, what do you do to help wild sheep?
    Quote Originally Posted by .264winmag View Post
    Buy tags, spend thousands on gear and trips, try to inform the naysayer non-hunters on the subject.
    What the government does with the hundreds of thousands I pay in taxes is, for the most part, out of my hands?
    Looks to me like you're benefitting yourself.....you aren't doing a damn thing to help wild sheep.

  6. #56
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    The WSSOBC, BCWF, GOABC, WSF "Power of Collaboration" pic is a red herring in this discussion. It's obvious that all groups pictured there want "more sheep on the mountain" and working together towards this endeavor makes perfect sense. This should be a non - issue.


    From all accounts, Bryan Martin is a very nice fellow and is an excellent hunter and guide. I also think that people deserve at least a second chance.

    I'm also keenly aware that in most organizations, a few members do the lions share of the work.

    The WSSoBC is not a resident hunters advocate group, it's a sheep enhancement organization. And they need to get funding from where they can, so teaming with outfitters that donate hunts at a reduced rate to the WSSoBC for an auction makes sense, as long as the WSSoBC makes money too.

    And although the WSSoBC isn't a resident hunter advocacy group, it seems to me that the majority of members are indeed BC resident hunters. So this association with Bryan Martin certainly brings into question the optics of it all. Like it or not, "optics" are something to consider, if continuing support is desirable.

    If the members of the organization don't like this association, they should make their opinions clear to the directors, and when forming their opinion, they should acknowledge that the WSSoBC not only looks to their own members for funding, but also to other non members, some of which hunt and some that do not.

    I'm not picking sides in this, just making commentary- as I've been in similar situations where you have to weigh the value of one thing over the other.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    RiverOtter, you seem to be the most vocal "Saint" of the pack in this thread so that's why I'm addressing this to you.
    When it comes to wildlife offences my bet is that G/O outfitter convictions are equal or a smaller percentage proportionally to all offenders, it's just that the G/O is more in the publics scrutiny.
    Ive probably watched more resident hunters unload their gear on the float dock than the average guy on this forum and I can tell you one thing...a CO would have a full time job some days right there.
    In my personal opinion I think it's absolute bullshit when someone floats another mans name out on a public forum and bad mouths him.
    Why don't you post yours and we can scrutinize your reputation.
    Bearvalley, you seem to be the most vocal "Defender of Poachers" of the pack in this thread so that's why I'm addressing this to you. Do you agree with the WSS doing business with a very well known convicted poacher, not just this year but for many years! Secondly, you seem to be well acquainted with this guy, why do you get so worked up about guys questioning his ethics, it doesn't look good on ya bud! And my last question, you wouldn't happen to be a director of the WSS would you? And my answer to part of your reply is, No, I don't support the WSS but I do support many other very good organizations, probably a lot of different ones than you but I can still voice my opinion on any one I wish! K

  8. #58
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    Looks to me like you're benefitting yourself.....you aren't doing a damn thing to help wild sheep.
    Oh so I should stop hunting em then?
    Here's some first hand knowledge of the happenings up northern bc:
    Non-resident work acquaintance paid top dollar for a stone hunt in the exact area I hunt. Guide put him on a legal dink ram and harvested it. When they were done cleaning animal Buddy asked if they were gonna open up to remove t-loin? Guide says nah we never bother! Now any legal ram is a trophy in my book, and Buddy is after his grand slam so main mission accomplished. But, the guide knew he wanted a bigger ram so offered to take him on a private hunt and harvest one off his resident tag. Buddy respectfully and undoubtedly declined said offer. Little time rolls by, Buddy informs me outfitter had contacted him as he had excess un-filled tag(s) that needed to used up, or by my understanding quota renewal would be lowered. The hunts were offered at a huge discount, and buddy again declined offer.
    You tell me if this is an isolated offer?
    Could those extra tags not be auctioned off to generate more $ to keep more sheep on the mountain?
    Would potential funds raised be more than I could ever imagine being able to donate to a foundation?
    I'm no rocket surgeon, but I can smell fish.
    I'll keep my hard earned $ for gunpowder and gas thank you very much.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    Are all wildlife enhancing projects in BC based on resident funding?
    Nope. But it's BC residents and on a larger scale Canadians that will ultimately pay the price for any mismanagement. And lets be honest, if sheep weren't such a pricey commodity, they wouldn't receive even a fraction of the attention they currently do. Everyone is aware of the division of the stakeholders here, and a lot of that is perpetuated by a govt that really doesn't care about wildlife, short of collecting revenue from the exploitation of same. Nothing new there.

    And just because there's no fan fare surrounding it, doesn't mean that residents just sit on their duff and only point fingers. Many residents partake in predator control(Trapping and/or Shooting) and property enhancement (removing understory, burning dead areas and planting wild grass/clover etc). I realize that is more beneficial to deer, elk and moose, as opposed to sheep, goats, caribou etc, but it's far from nothing.

  10. #60
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    Re: Please tell me this isn't the POACHER Brian Martin....

    You want more sheep on the mountain with the same quota on both sides res/non-res? Lower quota on both sides and cull wolves. Otherwise go after the GO's, after all they're the 'experts'...
    The only advantage to a light rifle is it's weight, all other advantages go to the heavier rifle..

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