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Thread: Deer in Western North America

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Re: Deer in Western North America

    Thats probably why the Okanagan is hurting so badly, shit kicked the winter range all over the valley.
    Predation is crazy for one and quality shelter is spread out too thin.
    Hot burns also cooked the soil good.

  2. #32
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    Re: Deer in Western North America

    Quote Originally Posted by 2chodi View Post
    Here are some notes I took when Mark Hurley from Idaho spoke at the 2013 BCWF AGM:




    There have been major peaks and valleys in populations over the last 30 years but every peak is lower.


    Mandatory harvest reporting.


    3% difference in adult survival can mean a difference between a population increasing or decreasing.


    Wolves like elk over deer, but mountain lions are a different story.


    Fawns: Severe winter most mortality from starvation and coyotes.


    Effects of Predator Control


    Arial gunning, trapping and hunting.


    Lion control -


    Money for coyote control - up to 70% were killed


    Winter survival was impacted by lion removal and summer survival most by coyote removal.


    Weather is the major limiting factor.


    Early winter precipitation is a major factor, more so than snow that comes later.


    No forage meets the protein requirements in the winter - the longer the winter, the worse shape the deer will be in.


    Forage quality:


    Mule deer typically stay over summer where they fawn.


    Late fall nutrition is critical.


    Aspen habitat (higher elevation) holds fewer coyotes and lower mortality.


    Mule deer are very territorial (more so than elk) so the more deer there are, the more that will be kicked out of the best habitat and forces them to try and survive on poorer quality habitat.


    Just because you have animals living in a habitat does not mean it's the best habitat, so focus enhancement efforts on the best habitat.


    Multistoried stands of aspen are critical.


    If you have fewer deer over a 10 year period it's likely a weather issue, if it is over 30 years, it's likely a habitat issue.


    Feeding - Chad Bishop Colorado - it helps, but in Idaho feeding deer has been a big issue because it stops migration. Also increases adult survival rates but decreases fawn survival. Mule deer need to migrate to survive.


    Controlled burns are good but be careful about too large a burn. Fire on winter range is bad - fire on summer range is good.


    White-tailed deer will always out compete with mule deer because of twinning rates.

    Thanks for posting up your notes Tuchodi. Wish I had the foresight to do the same so I would remember all those presentations.

    That last point is pretty significant.
    https://oceola.ca/
    http://bcwf.net/index.php
    http://www.wildsheepsociety.net/

    I Give my Heart to my Family....
    My Mind to my Work.......
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  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    428

    Re: Deer in Western North America

    Mandatory harvest reporting, thats a for sure, but goat guy said that it would cost too much.
    My comment was that we were already spending too much on our present questionnaire and that as much as it was consistent, it wasn't enough.
    Too Random in so many ways.

    How long have we been using the present H/Q?

    The more I read this one the better it gets.
    Mark Hurley Rocks.

  4. #34
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    Mar 2004
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    Re: Deer in Western North America

    Quote Originally Posted by bownut View Post
    Mandatory harvest reporting, thats a for sure, but goat guy said that it would cost too much.
    My comment was that we were already spending too much on our present questionnaire and that as much as it was consistent, it wasn't enough.
    Too Random in so many ways.

    How long have we been using the present H/Q?

    The more I read this one the better it gets.
    Mark Hurley Rocks.

    Under the current system I said mandatory reporting would be too expensive. I also said it can be done under electronic licensing which we are currently transitioning to.

    The harvest questionnaire and sampling design was built in the 1970s.

    Reporting how many bucks are shot will not, however, increase the mule deer population.
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

  5. #35
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    Apr 2011
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    428

    Re: Deer in Western North America

    Quote Originally Posted by GoatGuy View Post
    Under the current system I said mandatory reporting would be too expensive. I also said it can be done under electronic licensing which we are currently transitioning to.

    The harvest questionnaire and sampling design was built in the 1970s.

    Reporting how many bucks are shot will not, however, increase the mule deer population.
    So if we are still using the systems that were designed in the 70's and you have stated that Management for the past 40 years has screwed up so badly.
    How can the present management practices be moving in the right directions without a better way to determine what gets taken and what is truly left standing in the spring?
    Hurley did suggest a mandatory reporting of harvest, and the e licence will be a great step in the right direction.

    I am not quite convinced that we should even look at other studies until we have a True benchmark.
    If the white tails aren't doing as well as everyone thinks could we be going in the wrong direction with our thinking?

    Question:
    What was the total elk count for region 8-8 and 8-9 in 2001?
    What was the elk count in 2004 for the same areas?

  6. #36
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    Mar 2004
    Location
    Toon town
    Posts
    13,138

    Re: Deer in Western North America

    Quote Originally Posted by bownut View Post
    So if we are still using the systems that were designed in the 70's and you have stated that Management for the past 40 years has screwed up so badly.
    How can the present management practices be moving in the right directions without a better way to determine what gets taken and what is truly left standing in the spring?
    Hurley did suggest a mandatory reporting of harvest, and the e licence will be a great step in the right direction.

    I am not quite convinced that we should even look at other studies until we have a True benchmark.
    If the white tails aren't doing as well as everyone thinks could we be going in the wrong direction with our thinking?

    Question:
    What was the total elk count for region 8-8 and 8-9 in 2001?
    What was the elk count in 2004 for the same areas?
    Best you start a region 8 elk thread.

    No sense in cluttering a thread on deer in North America with localized minutia for a different species.
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

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