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Thread: Killers of BCs Moose

  1. #141
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by LeverActionJunkie View Post
    I don't know how we're ever going to convince the majority of people, not hunters, British Columbians, that moose are worth saving and they need to pressure elected officials. The majority of the electorate lives in the lower mainland and they decide for the rest of the province. Even though they'll never see or experience most of it. This is the BC story the issue doesn't matter. The lower mainland decides for all. And we wonder why they don't care about moose? How could they not care about logging practices? Habitat loss? How could they not care about predator/prey relationships and balances?

    Because they have no clue.

    Because they experience it in provincial parks, ski hills, the shushwap, okanagan lake, from a wake boat, from the windshield driving the coquihala. They experience it on long weekends and once or twice a year on vacation. They go for a hike and think how great things are, all this untouched wilderness.

    This is not meant as a slander against readers/members from the lower mainland, it is just the way BC is. Society is. It's just the same in kamloops or kelowna. Most people don't fully experience it so don't worry, wonder or frankly care about it. Obviously some go right off their meds and want to preserve it all without recognizing their own impact.

    What we need is BC's Teddy Roosevelt or a Don Peay or some similar personality. As we've talked about we need to get together, get focused. We'll have to give up some things, we might not even see equal compromise from other sides. That doesn't really matter if what we do we do for wildlife (moose in this case) because without critters, we're just gun owners with camo cloathes.

    If we went to govt with a plan on how to recover moose, how to help fund it, why it's important, who we are asking to help us ( FN's, bios, conservation groups), as well as what we are willing to give up because WE CARE and want to see the best for the resource. Then we could have a chance. We take a message of positive action to the news media and social media and govt maybe we could turn it around.

    I for one would be willing to give up all GOS for Moose south of region 6&7A. Put it all on bull only LEH. I've seen enough dead cows and 3 & 4 point bulls to know that season does our image no good. Every time it's picked up in the news it looks bad on us.

    Might all just be wishful thinking but if we can turn our image from one of a group wanting more and in conflict with others, to a group bringing positive change and sacrificing for something so that others down the road can have more. Then even the leaf lickers won't wanna protest lol
    This is post is how it is and basically what is needed....even though some will never agree.
    Well said, LeverActionJunkie.

  2. #142
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by GoatGuy View Post
    Have to convince politicians recovering moose, and wildlife, is the right thing to do.

    Meet them, write them, tell them, talk to your friends, family and coworkers, then vote based on people who say they will support fish and wildlife.

    This issue really isn't about managing wolves, FN, hunting seasons, etc, it's about giving wildlife managers a mandate, some money, and the ability to recover wildlife.

    Believe it or not we know how to recover moose populations and what it takes, we just don't have the political support to do it.
    Managers could intervene and raise populations but they do not have the social licence....who gives the social licence? Politicians?? Not really. This is an issue with sentimental general public and them being manipulated by media by whomever runs media.

    "Oh God, the terrible tyranny of the majority we all have our harps to play. And it is up to you to know which ear you will listen" (Ray Bradbury)
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

  3. #143
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post
    Managers could intervene and raise populations but they do not have the social licence....who gives the social licence? Politicians?? Not really. This is an issue with sentimental general public and them being manipulated by media by whomever runs media.

    "Oh God, the terrible tyranny of the majority we all have our harps to play. And it is up to you to know which ear you will listen" (Ray Bradbury)
    Not sure I agree with that.

    According to the media, 91% of people in BC are opposed to 'trophy grizzly bear hunting', but there is still a hunt.

    Most of the public would support changes to land use, and habitat management, yet we are not changing the rules.

    Most of the 'media' is opposed to the wolf management program for caribou, yet it is still happening.


    Conservationists just haven't tried to convince politicians that fish and wildlife is a priority.

    Look south at Idaho, Montana, Colorado, Utah, etc. They are spending hundreds of millions on fish and wildlife, managing habitat, managing predators, ungulates. That is not because of the media (they have antis down there too) - it's because politicians down there are terrified of hunters/anglers.
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

  4. #144
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    This is post is how it is and basically what is needed....even though some will never agree.
    Well said, LeverActionJunkie.
    and why would that be? Why give up hunting for bulls when bull hunting is not at all related to the problems facing moose? Its not like once residents give up hunting, natives will as well. Please explain further.

  5. #145
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    This is post is how it is and basically what is needed....even though some will never agree.
    Well said, LeverActionJunkie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamebuster View Post
    and why would that be? Why give up hunting for bulls when bull hunting is not at all related to the problems facing moose? Its not like once residents give up hunting, natives will as well. Please explain further.
    Gamebuster, read what I said.
    Basically .....what LeverActionJunkie posted is a framework that could work.
    How long do you think the moose numbers in regions 6, 7a and 7b will be sustainable if all moose hunting shifts there?
    Do you think all of regions 6, 7a and 7b are not affected by the same moose deline factors as the study areas?
    Do you not beleive the over abundant wolf population will follow the food source and shift north?
    Right now we have no say in what FN's do...but if an area is closed for conservation concern reasons we do.
    Like I said before...we are going to have to lose some to win.
    How would you go about getting a recovery underway?

  6. #146
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by GoatGuy View Post
    Not sure I agree with that.

    According to the media, 91% of people in BC are opposed to 'trophy grizzly bear hunting', but there is still a hunt.

    Most of the public would support changes to land use, and habitat management, yet we are not changing the rules.

    Most of the 'media' is opposed to the wolf management program for caribou, yet it is still happening.


    Conservationists just haven't tried to convince politicians that fish and wildlife is a priority.

    Look south at Idaho, Montana, Colorado, Utah, etc. They are spending hundreds of millions on fish and wildlife, managing habitat, managing predators, ungulates. That is not because of the media (they have antis down there too) - it's because politicians down there are terrified of hunters/anglers.
    Fair enough though I can't help but feel we are one election away from loosing a lot.
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

  7. #147
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    I asked 2 questions that never got answered, maybe I was too vague, I will simply ask straight.
    Why not try to get the Moose closed for a few years for everyone including FN?... and yes it can be done.
    Where/what is the cause of the great increase in bears? seems they are eating lots of Moose.

  8. #148
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post
    Fair enough though I can't help but feel we are one election away from loosing a lot.

    Agreed, and feels as though we've already lost a lot.

    At what point is enough, enough?
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

  9. #149
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Thanks BV. I was asking specifically about the idea to shut down hunting for moose in the south. I don't agree with that and it appears you don't either but your response to leveraction seemed to. We need to focus on the problem, which in my opinion is almost entirely related to predation. I realize there's other issues that would be great to address but let's first focus on one big issue and see if we can get there. If we can't address one of the big issues, it's not likely we're going to address the others either. They are all big issues. I don't have the answers on how we achieve that but I'm not sure that removing the value that hunters (moose hunting) and govt have (proceeds from moose hunting) in the interim is a good idea.

  10. #150
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    Re: Killers of BCs Moose

    Quote Originally Posted by 338win mag View Post
    Curious, what is the cause in the increase of bears populations?
    logging.....
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

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