Well below carrying capacity...consider

[horshur]

I'll take pics if you doubt it...there is a cut block..actually there are a few where forest company is having a heck of a time getting trees to grow. They need to get block to free growing stage in order to harvest adjacent wood. Why won't trees grow?. Mule deer are hard on seedlings.
What I'm getting at is ungulates have a roll in forest cover..they make range. This particular block when more mature will look like most of the fir timber that mulies use all winter....lower density of ungulates will result in tighter forest cover which will be less productive for mule deer long term. It is not just fire that shapes habitat!!. Also begs question regarding rules on stocking standards...

[bearvalley]

Reforestation stocking rates should have been addressed long ago.
The free to grow rating is given on the planted trees, the natural regen that is usually a few years behind falls off the radar.
End result when free to grow is achieved ....the forest company is released from further obligations on the block.
The taxpayer is shouldered with the future management of the weed tree stand.
Wildlife suffers due to lack of forage productivity.

[Stillhunting]

I was very surprised at the number of animals, both moose and deer, that I spooked while surveying thick, 10-15 year old pine stands around Kelowna and Kamloops last Summer and Fall. There was also much more browse than you would expect. Pretty much impossible to hunt them in there though. I do think the stocking standards should be relaxed somewhat to allow for more variability in densities, but most of all it would be nice to see more emphasis on wildlife values in forestry, instead of it being all about profits. Most logging for the last 15 years has been on the plateaus around here, but that is changing now so things could get ugly soon as they move into the winter range which is much more important when it comes to carrying capacity.

[horshur]

I was very surprised at the number of animals, both moose and deer, that I spooked while surveying thick, 10-15 year old pine stands around Kelowna and Kamloops last Summer and Fall. There was also much more browse than you would expect. Pretty much impossible to hunt them in there though. I do think the stocking standards should be relaxed somewhat to allow for more variability in densities, but most of all it would be nice to see more emphasis on wildlife values in forestry, instead of it being all about profits. Most logging for the last 15 years has been on the plateaus around here, but that is changing now so things could get ugly soon as they move into the winter range which is much more important when it comes to carrying capacity.

I don't share your worries as much regarding winter range logging..been watching it last bit and blocks actually are more productive for deer then the standing timber it is easy to see right from year two or three however like my original post if they grow up fast and thick will not be productive for as long as they could. The particular block I refer too they have replanted it at least once ...much of the winter range timber is old cutblock or was a burn at one time. Renewal is good.

[Bugle M In]

I was very surprised at the number of animals, both moose and deer, that I spooked while surveying thick, 10-15 year old pine stands around Kelowna and Kamloops last Summer and Fall. There was also much more browse than you would expect. Pretty much impossible to hunt them in there though. I do think the stocking standards should be relaxed somewhat to allow for more variability in densities, but most of all it would be nice to see more emphasis on wildlife values in forestry, instead of it being all about profits. Most logging for the last 15 years has been on the plateaus around here, but that is changing now so things could get ugly soon as they move into the winter range which is much more important when it comes to carrying capacity.

Going with you on this one!

[Stillhunting]

Planting is never the reason it comes in super thick anyway, that's the natural regen. Perhaps we'll see more juvenile spacing work in the future, to thin some of the really bad stands out and improve wildlife habitat.

[horshur]

Planting is never the reason it comes in super thick anyway, that's the natural regen. Perhaps we'll see more juvenile spacing work in the future, to thin some of the really bad stands out and improve wildlife habitat.

who is responsible for that?

[Boner]

who is responsible for that?

Not a concern for the foresters. It's all about those crop trees overcoming the deciduous naturals that would compete. Aspen, cottonwood, birch etc. While brushing and spacing, even the naturally regenerated subalpine fir gets no respect if it's within x distance of a shitty pine crop tree.

[horshur]

I already know the answer..who is responsible for thinning? It is not the forest company.

[GoatGuy]

I already know the answer..who is responsible for thinning? It is not the forest company.

Thinning done in the 90s was a made work project. Fibre yield similar between thinned and unthined stands.

Obligations to get replanted stands to free to grow up to licensee. No one wants to have to go back in a second time to replant so they overdo it the first time.

Biodiversity is not part of the current equation.