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Thread: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

  1. #11
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    I don't understand. The want to ban tropjy grizzly bear hunting... but there's still a grizzly bear hunt? Then just repeating that they need to base it on science...

  2. #12
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    NDP gets voted in here in BC it will be cheaper and easier to move away well they are in power lol

    Even if they were great for hunting they are brutal for the economy. Can't hunt much if you can't afford to go

  3. #13
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    Quote Originally Posted by BCWF View Post
    BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban


    The BC New Democrats recently released their position on the British Columbia Grizzly Bear hunt; a number of questions arose from our membership regarding that release.


    Here are the BC New Democrat Party’s answers to questions about the details of their proposed ban submitted by the BCWF to John Horgan, Leader, New Democrat Official Opposition.


    QUESTION: Under the new proposed policy would residents of B.C. have opportunity under the LEH system to continue to harvest Grizzly bears?


    • Yes. This is not about being opposed to hunting. This is about being opposed to the grizzly bear trophy hunt and only the grizzly bear trophy hunt. Hunting Grizzly is a trophy hunt. So by your definition you are opposed. However, Grizzly hunting is also a wildlife management strategy. How do you propose to offset the information that Grizzly hunting provides?

    • B.C. hunters will continue to have the opportunity under the LEH system to harvest grizzly bear utilizing the entire bear. The bear hunt is a trophy hunt. Call it what it is. But it's also a invaluable wildlife management tool. Something the opponents of the hunt fail to acknowledge. Get over yourself. The hunt will never endanger the species. It is well regulated and monitored. Quit catering to the ill-informed and quit politicizing this issue. That's the best thing you could do at the moment. We will ensure we use science-based decisions to determine the numbers of LEH tags allowed in various areas. If there aren't enough bears there won’t be a hunt and vice versa. Have you done studies which extrapolate what the increase of Grizzly populations will have on other wildlife as well as other stakeholders, (hikers, campers) who use the environment. As an Apex animal, one would think that logically you would not want them over populating. How do you propose to keep populations in check with other wildlife in those areas where bears increase beyond what's sustainable?


    QUESTION: Under the new proposed policy would non-residents of B.C. continue to have opportunity to harvest Grizzly bears?


    • Yes. We are not proposing changes to any hunting regulations except as they relate to the grizzly bear trophy hunt. Are you willing to make the statement that you see hunting as a necessary and beneficial activity to proper wildlife management?

    • That said, the 2015 changes to allocations for resident/non-resident by the liberal government were wrong. We stood with hunters in 2015 when the government took away hunting rights from British Columbians to give more to foreign hunters. Resident hunters make a significant contribution to B.C.’s rural economy and way of life, hunting to feed their families with B.C. game and contribute to wildlife conservation activities. You don't stand behind hunters. You criticized a sitting government. It's when you're in power that your true colors are revealed. Democracy is a scam, as you will show us, in that 51% of the population can ram their ideology down the throats of the other 49%. Your attempt at politicizing this issue is nothing more than that. Banking on the idea that most will vote for you because they don't understand the significance of the Grizzly hunt to managing the overall environment.


    BCWF: Under the new proposed policy would the NDP commit to manage the Grizzly bear harvest using the best available science?


    • Yes. The government has been cutting boots on the ground and scientific research on wildlife for 15 years, so there’s considerable dispute about the actual animal population numbers. We agree with the BC Wildlife Federation who point out that a failure to adequately fund biodiversity conservation is one of the biggest challenges B.C. faces.

    • We need funding for research into grizzly bear and other animal populations. Ministry staff needs stable and ongoing research funding to know if their population numbers are reliable. These concerns are reflected in the recent review of the grizzly bear management system released by MoF and FLNRO: Are you willing to dedicate the money generated through the licensing of hunting and the LEH system for this purpose? The money is generated by this resource. How much are you willing to put back into it from this venue? Give us a number to hold you too.

    • Resources dedicated to grizzly bear harvest management are inadequate. Additional funding to improve population inventory, monitoring, data handling, and analysis is needed. Are you willing to put the money generated through the Grizzly LEH and Grizzly licenses directly back into Grizzly management? Are you willing to contribute a percentage? What percentage? How much have you asked the eco-tourist fascists, who continually insist that the hunt and "their business" can't co-exist, are they willing to put forward from their bottom line towards assisting Grizzly management?

    • Resources should be provided in a predictable manner to facilitate management needs and research requirements. Resources are provided in a predictable manner. They are consistently insufficient.

    • The NDP tabled a bill last spring, the Sustainable Wildlife Management Act, to provide new and alternative funding, give wildlife and habitat a priority, and engage all hunting and wildlife groups to work collaboratively toward short and long term plans for fisheries, wildlife and habitat. The government rejected our bill. People don't trust you because you're socialists and you continually rob peter to pay paul. You, like other governments will not put the money into wildlife conservation because undoubtedly you have numerous other entitlement handouts that will make wildlife conservation a very distant consideration.

    http://bcndpcaucus.ca/news/new-democ...fish-wildlife/
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  4. #14
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    The grizzly bear trophy hunt ban is nothing more than a ballot initiative put forth by the NDP.
    This initiative is completely lacking as to the long term management of grizzlies in the future if the NDP is successful in pulling this off.

    The harvest of a grizzly bear is part of wildlife management, whether we want to think so or not. We cannot leave one species un-hunted and left to themselves. Not even the "iconic" grizzly as some like to call them.

    Heres a few points from a guy that guides non resident aliens, non resident Canadians and BC residents for grizzly bears. These are the hunters taking the rap for hunting grizzly bears for trophies.

    Every grizzly taken by a client is a boost to other species of wildlife, whether the NDP or the uneducated public wants to beleive it or not. I've seen what a grizzly bear can do to a goat population or how they can lower the recruitment of moose and caribou calves. You can bet they like lanb chops and elk calves make a damn good snack as well.

    In a lot of BC, grizzly hunts are under utilized by residents. Take a look at last years regulation change where a northern RM proposed to triple the number of LEH authorizations in a MU due to the abundance of grizzly bears.
    My bet is that even with the increase the resident harvest will fall short of target. That's if we get to keep the hunt.

    Right now BC is facing some tough wildlife management issues.
    The major culprits are habitat degradation due to the removal of the protective canopy and the creation of unlimited access.
    This combination has put unprecedented predation squarely onto wildlife. Both two legged predators and the four legged kind.
    The "mystical" wolf is the most commonly blamed predator for wildlife declines and rightly so. The wolf does one hell of a job of killing animals but most don't get it that bears do even better at stopping wildlife recruitment, even if and when wolf numbers are put in check.

    As for meat removal on bears...its total horse shit. A bear is a predator, the same as a wolf or wolverine. They should be managed as a predator. The fur should be utilized, the meat should be left up to the discretion of the hunter as to if it is packed out of the bush for human consumption or left to be utilized by scavenging wildlife.
    No one is shooting grizzly bears strictly as table fare and I will personally deliver the rankest smelling, tough old grizzly carcass to any clown that tells me they like the taste of grizzly meat.

    It's absolutely pathetic when a political party uses a species of wildlife as a vote gathering ploy.
    I hope the BCWF has the backbone to stand up and put forth that message....loud and clear.
    Last edited by bearvalley; 12-18-2016 at 10:08 PM.

  5. #15
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    It's odd that NDP candidates are contradicting Horgan.

    Well, no, it's not odd at all. The candidate isn't trying to bullshit hunters until after the election.



    NDP pledge to end grizzly hunt brings debate out of hibernation

    By Ezra Black

    In 2008, Elk Valley hunter Mario Rocca shot a grizzly bear.

    It was the culmination of over two decades of effort. Permits to hunt grizzlies are hard to come by and that year only one was issued for the Elk Valley.

    In next May’s provincial election, hunters like Rocca could be setting their sights on New Democrat John Horgan who has promised to end B.C.’s grizzly bear hunt if his party forms the next government.

    They’ll be armed with votes and not rifles.

    “I know a lot more about bears than the leader of the NDP. I don’t know if he’s ever seen a grizzly bear in the wild,” said Rocca, a past-president of the Fernie Rod and Gun Club. “He’s not a hunter. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to wildlife. He’s governed by emotion, not science. From the hunters’ perspective things are being managed. We’re not going to run out of grizzly bears.”

    In 2000, the NDP banned the grizzly hunt. In 2001, the Liberals were elected and ended the ban.

    Tom Shypitka, the Liberal candidate for East Kootenay, said the New Democrats lost several rural seats in 2001 in part because of their stance on grizzly bear hunting. He said their decision to go for another ban betrays an urban bias.

    “My reaction to the NDP's announcement was astonishment and disappointment,” he said. “They have rural members. They went through this in 2001. They have to know there are enough bears to hunt and that rural people believe in hunting. The only explanation for their decision to ban something that is supported in rural B.C. is that they have written off rural B.C. They must remember. Obviously they don't care about rural seats.”

    Shypitka accused the NDP of making “a wildlife management decision on the basis of emotion, politics and urban bias.”

    “Wildlife management decisions should be made on the basis of what the science supports,” he said. “If there are enough bears in a unit to support a hunt, a hunt is allowed. If there are insufficient bears to support a hunt, no hunt is allowed. That is how wildlife should be managed.”

    Further left on the political spectrum, Randal Macnair, the NDP’s candidate for East Kootenay, said he’s “always supported science-based wildlife management,” but that the Liberals have got it all wrong.

    “I understand why a ban has been proposed,” he said. “It is in large part a result of the appalling mismanagement of wildlife and habitat by the BC Liberals.”

    Macnair said that while the Liberals have been touting their environmental management system, the fact remains that grizzly bear populations in the East Kootenay are in trouble.

    “Grizzly bears used to roam from Manitoba to Mexico all across western North America,” he said. “B.C. is now their last stronghold and they are no longer living in some areas in the southern portion of our province including the Rocky Mountain Trench. A BC NDP government will work to bring everyone together to protect this special, iconic animal.”


    Horgan’s announcement is dividing politicians and hunters but recently published studies suggest the real losers in the Elk Valley are bears.

    Corinne Hoetmer, project coordinator for The South Rockies Grizzly Bear Project in the Elk Valley, said that while hunting accounts for a number of grizzly bear deaths a much larger number are killed in other human-bear conflicts.

    The South Rockies Grizzly Bear Project is a long term, ongoing population inventory of grizzly bears lead by the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations in the Kootenay Region.

    Hoetmer said the Elk Valley has become an ecological trap for grizzly bears. The animals are drawn to the valley because of food and are then killed by humans.

    “More grizzlies die from non-hunting related causes in this area than anywhere else in B.C.,” she said.

    Citing a paper published by Mowatt and Lamb on the population of grizzly bears in the Southern Rockies and Flathead, Hoetmer said the South Rockies grizzly bear population declined by 40 per cent between 2006 and 2014. This decline was most likely due to a decade of poor foraging in combination with an increase in human-caused mortality.

    There were 116 grizzly bear mortalities recorded in the South Rockies and 44 in the Flathead during this period.

    Of the human-caused mortalities in the South Rockies, 38 per cent were hunter kills, 25 per cent were for animal control and other similar reasons, 28 per cent occurred on highways and railways and 8 per cent were illegal. In the Flathead, 91 per cent of recorded kills were by hunters and 9 per cent were control kills.

    “This non-hunting mortality is much more difficult to mitigate than the regulatory changes involved with mitigating mortality due to hunting,” said Hoetmer.

    Joe Caravetta, an inspector with the B.C. Conservation Service's Kootenay-Boundary region, explained the number of grizzly bears hunted in the Elk Valley varies from year to year depending on population estimates.

    “There are bears shot in self-defense, there are bears that are shot for protection of property, there are bears killed on the highway and there are bears killed by railways,” he said. “After taking those things into consideration we decide on what the population can handle.”

    The Wildlife Act requires certain parts of an animal to be packed out of the bush once it’s been shot. While a hunter may choose to pack out its hide, paws or head, there is no requirement to pack out a grizzly bear’s meat, he said.

    Grizzly bear meat is not generally eaten because it can carry the parasite that causes trichinosis, said Caravetta. The number of grizzly hunting permits issued in the Elk Valley is small. From 2013 to 2015, only one was given out.

    “It’s probably the most intensely managed hunt in the province,” he said. “It’s the highest profile.”

    Calling the practice “primarily a trophy hunt,” Wildsight, a Kootenay-based environmental group, has come out in favour of the ban.

    “It is clear that hunting has a significant impact on grizzly bear populations in the region,” said John Bergenske, Wildsight’s conservation director. “Eliminating the hunt should significantly increase grizzly bear survival. Grizzly bears are very slow reproducers, so loss of any females in a population can significantly impact the long-term health of a population.”
    Quote Originally Posted by chevy
    Sorry!!!! but in all honesty, i could care less,, what todbartell! actually thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    but man how much pepporoni can your arshole take anyways !

  6. #16
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    one thing on the meat removal to. do we not use that carrying capacity idea to regulate the numbers. i know theirs more to it than just that, but it is one of the main sciences.
    so if were using science, can someone show me in that carrying capacity where it says it will only work if we remove the meat and ate it? isnt it about just removing the animal? killing it. the food is our pay in a way for doing gov work that would happen regardless. we see it with the deer or wolf culls..they get it either way, but costs are way higher if they do it.
    ive said that to a few anti`s in discission, seems to shut them up. they arent used to that one and dont have their scripted responce to it

  7. #17
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    i been watching his facebook page for him to release that first info from him, seems he`s avoided bragging about that one on there. wonder why he hides it. its obviously said diff than first statements so he avoiding his own tree hugger type from jumping on him to? he sure isnt very consistant at the answers on same questiions

  8. #18
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    Bearvalley:

    You bring up a lot of good points. I don't think the public is ready to hear some of them yet, and I've never seen "Well, they better bloody well listen and wise up" work as a good sales tool

    I think that we need to start changing the perception of hunting, conservation, wildlife and wild places, and I think we need to do that with a long term plan.

    "It's absolutely pathetic when a political party uses a species of wildlife as a vote gathering ploy."

    I think that's one of the first messages to get out. So far I've heard the Green Party and the NDP say they believe that science is the proper tool for the discharge of wildlife management. I think Andrew Weaver has actually committed to that (witness his support for predator control), but I'm not sure the rest of his party believes it. I suspect the NDP is just paying lip service to the idea.

    I don't know where the Liberals stand on it (if anyone does, please get me details).

    Regardless, I think the hunting community should, over the long term, define what is meant by science and then keep hammering the message.


    "I hope the BCWF has the backbone to stand up and put forth that message....loud and clear."

    I don't think it's a question of backbone, but I also don't have the knowledge on that to make a fair judgement. I also don't think we need to backbone to pick a fight with anyone in order to demonstrate how big and brassy our nuts are. I think we need to backbone to commit to a long term project of educating ourselves (look how often hunters disagree on management and science) and, more important, the 80% of voters who don't care all that much one way or another about hunting.

    I'm going to try to make some concrete progress on this at the Region 2 Board of Directors of the BCWF by suggesting a year long policy of getting our message out to the hunting community, and through our community leverage that message to as many non-hunters as possible. That may not be the vehicle, but we'll see. We've got less than 6 months to the election, and those 6 months will be prime time for discussion.


    We have a lot of personality conflicts in our community, but we also have an awful lot of expertise and knowledge. We need to put that where the people are, and that means Youtube, Facebook and Twitter. If I type "grizzly bear" into the search bar of my Facebook page I get 8 results immediately. 2 of them reference stopping the BC grizzly hunt. None of the other 6 results provide a counter point to these.

    If you've only got one guy selling an idea in a marketplace of ideas, and that idea is stopping a grizzly hunt on moral grounds, he's the guy who's going to make the sale. We can't win a game that we don't even play. We need to start playing. The grizzly hunt is just a battle. As we should recognize from all our talks on this forum about mule deer, whitetail, moose, FNs, predator control, habitat and, above all else, a plan and a funding model, the war is going to last a lot longer.

    As I said, I'm going to see if the Region 2 Board of the BCWF is interested in this, and I'll report back. If they are we'll need help, and if they aren't....I'll need help.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  9. #19
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    The day you start managing anything based on heart and not science is the day we are all screwed. Funny when you have a rat problem at these homeless camps for example when they move out they exterminate them all. When you have nice little pet bunnies running all over the place you hug and save them, both rodents. Two different results!!!!

  10. #20
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    Re: BC NDP on Grizzly Bear Trophy Hunt Ban- Questions Answered

    Quote Originally Posted by Piperdown View Post
    The day you start managing anything based on heart and not science is the day we are all screwed. Funny when you have a rat problem at these homeless camps for example when they move out they exterminate them all. When you have nice little pet bunnies running all over the place you hug and save them, both rodents. Two different results!!!!

    but if the media shows the rats being killed it will be way doff reaction. already saw other day on news. some report about rats and they all wanted to save them to

    yesterday on the news and the guide that interfeared with the whale and deer in water. they want to save the endangered whale and cry. but were ok he interfeared to help the deer that was about to be eaten. they have no clue about what their even trying to save.

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