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Thread: Never again?

  1. #381
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    Re: Never again?

    Quote Originally Posted by J_T View Post
    Ourea, Most everyone agrees with the plan stated and your comments above. It's getting sufficient airplay that everyone is buying in. That's fine. The concern continues to be the divisive comments though. By your own statement you talk about shrinking populations and rebuilding numbers. Which supports statements made in the EK the numbers are down. Few dispute that whitetail are resilient. Again, not the issue. They will rebound, given a chance. The concern probably simply comes down to a lack of respect. Quality, credible people in the EK are suggesting through whatever observations they offer, that numbers are down. If you attend wildlife/hunting meetings here (doesn't matter what group), you hear this as a common theme. Read it in the paper, talk to just about anyone. Yet, showing a lack of respect we have some on this thread making comments that WT populations are fine? And maybe they are fine in some areas of the Province. Lots of hunters spend time in the winter watching animals, or even participating in the feeding programs (another topic for a different thread). They aren't ignorant as a few might suggest. Becoming a solid team starts with not trying to undermine a fellow hunter, or accusing him of being self serving, or of being a poor hunter. Becoming a team, starts with respect. And some just lack the ability to show respect completely.

    I think you're missing the point.

    The fact that WT numbers may be down in some areas can be a GOOD thing.

    Seeing 50 does before 9 am is indicative of a population that is on the brink of a major disaster, such as we had in 1997, with stockpiled WT deer dying out at an alarming rate when we got a dose of winter weather.

    A quote from the bios counting elk back before the die off: "We began counting WT deer too, but quit after 30 minutes and 980 deer counted in the first grid."

    Unfortunately, there will always be those who confuse high numbers with herd health, and lobby to go back to the good old days of male only harvest and dismal sex ratios.

    Perhaps those people want to see loads of stunted does and fewer "assholes from the lower mainland" again. I know they don't seem interested in the health of WT deer, that's for sure.
    Last edited by Fisher-Dude; 04-03-2017 at 01:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by chevy
    Sorry!!!! but in all honesty, i could care less,, what todbartell! actually thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    but man how much pepporoni can your arshole take anyways !

  2. #382
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    Re: Never again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher-Dude View Post
    I think you're missing the point.

    The fact that WT numbers may be down in some areas can be a GOOD thing.

    Seeing 50 does before 9 am is indicative of a population that is on the brink of a major disaster, such as we had in 1997, with stockpiled WT deer dying out at an alarming rate when we got a dose of winter weather.

    A quote from the bios counting elk back before the die off: "We began counting WT deer too, but quit after 30 minutes and 980 deer counted in the first grid."

    Unfortunately, there will always be those who confuse high numbers with herd health, and lobby to go back to the good old days of male only harvest and dismal sex ratios.

    Perhaps those people want to see loads of stunted does and fewer "assholes from the lower mainland" again. I know they don't seem interested in the health of WT deer, that's for sure.
    I don't think I'm missing the point and perhaps if you were less confrontational you'd see that. I completely understand in many areas WT are considered invasive. Your analogy is getting boring. I understand the analogy. Your presentation is not about reflecting any real scenario. The language you choose reflects your 'online' confrontational nature. The analogy is not used as an effective communication tool to clarify something, it just tends to prove you are a tool who won't consider respect as a starting point.

  3. #383
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    Re: Never again?

    Quote Originally Posted by J_T View Post
    I don't think I'm missing the point and perhaps if you were less confrontational you'd see that. I completely understand in many areas WT are considered invasive. Your analogy is getting boring. I understand the analogy. Your presentation is not about reflecting any real scenario. The language you choose reflects your 'online' confrontational nature. The analogy is not used as an effective communication tool to clarify something, it just tends to prove you are a tool who won't consider respect as a starting point.
    If you don't agree with me, then just say so. Playing the victim when confronted with facts doesn't add to the conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by chevy
    Sorry!!!! but in all honesty, i could care less,, what todbartell! actually thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    but man how much pepporoni can your arshole take anyways !

  4. #384
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    Re: Never again?

    Further to what I said about huge WT populations not being healthy, here's the Hatter study on population dynamics under various harvest scenarios.

    Note buck:doe and fawn:doe ratios with female harvest, and sustained harvest levels.

    I'd rather manage deer to the 82% level and have a sustained harvest that is 4 times as high as bucks only, than manage to 100% herd size and see sex ratios, fawn recruitment and hunting opportunity suffer. Even managing to 59% gives outstanding ratios and 5 times the harvest, sustainably.



    Study by well-known BC biologist Ian Hatter on whitetail management options.


    %Male.......%Female....Buck/doe.....Fawn/doe....Stable Herd.....Sustained
    harvest.......harvest.......ratio.............rati o.............size............harvest

    0%...........0%...........50/100...........24/100.............10,000.............0
    25%..........0%..........19/100...........24/100.............10,000..........333
    50%..........0%...........9/100............24/100.............10,000..........322
    25%.........13%.........43/100............56/100..............8,160........1,242
    50%.........25%.........32/100............97/100..............5,875........1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by chevy
    Sorry!!!! but in all honesty, i could care less,, what todbartell! actually thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    but man how much pepporoni can your arshole take anyways !

  5. #385
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    Re: Never again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ourea View Post
    I totally agree just because I have "killed a large buck or two" does not make me an expert in wildlife management.
    (And I've put more than jus a few big deer and elk on the ground LOL)
    My efforts on solution is not making a difference because of my hunting acumen.

    My involvement and input in this project is supported by my business background that gives me some abilities that others may not have.
    While others focus 100% of their energy on complaining about the state of wildlife some are concentrating their energies elsewhere......and that is what is the long term solution.

    Some have taken the time to repeatedly meet with wildlife managers and ask them what are the tools they need to make a significant difference in their management area.
    What are the obstacles....the political barriers?
    How can we deal with FN and their rights in a positive way?
    How do we deal with/get Gov on board and actually invest in the future of wildlife....LONG TERM?
    Next step was setting up meetings with MLA's with a very solid plan presented in a professional manner.
    Another component is trying to ensure that Gov does not control the money as Gov's can get voted in and out and our plan can go out the window come election day.
    I am doing my part behind the scenes with the "big picture".
    My hat goes off to guys like Zeeman who work tirelessly delivering the message.
    His commitment, work ethic and passion for the future of wildlife is second to none.

    Labguy, let's get behind this and when it is up and running we can talk about tweaking a doe season here and there until the cows come home.
    Cheers

    O
    If you need me to help with any of this in any fashion I will. Let me know when, where and how. I appreciate your commitment to the "big picture".
    "Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donel fat"

  6. #386
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    Re: Never again?

    Cheers labguy.
    I appreciate your kind words and understanding/respect of the Big Picture.

    We can make a difference in the future of wildlife for future generations to enjoy.
    I truly believe this.
    It all starts with the Big Picture....a solid plan.
    Next is to support the plan by sticking to the script.

    That plan is finding traction.
    We just need more outdoor and conservation minded people to embrace it.
    That includes support from outside of the hook and bullet community (big picture)

    Motivational comment.....
    Russell Wilson, the quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks, he was considered too small, didn't have this...didn't have that...to compete at the NFL level.
    He looked in the mirror and said to himself....someone can and will be the quarterback and leader of this team ...... why not me, I can be that man.
    Defining moment in his mindset and career.

    The more people realize that they can make a difference, if they invest in a culture/plan/organization, that has a solid foundation to get shit done...well...shit will get done.

    Thanks labguy, many can be that person to help right the ship.
    Hope more believe in this attitude now that a plan is in place.

    I firmly believe we can and will make difference with OUR new way of thinking.


    I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards and forums. - F L Wright


    Try and be kind to everyone but fear no one. - Ourea


  7. #387
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    Re: Never again?

    [QUOTE=Fisher-Dude;1894465]You started this whole thread predicating that whitetails were in trouble because you and your friends couldn't hammer a bunch of big bucks the past few years.

    Oh, the irony![/QUOTE

    i know it is confusing but lab guy is not black lab...reading comprehension or maybe old age..early dementia? Lol
    It is well to try and journey ones road and to fight with the air.Man must die! At worst he can die a little sooner." (H Ryder Haggard)

  8. #388
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    Re: Never again?

    [QUOTE=horshur;1894545]
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher-Dude View Post
    You started this whole thread predicating that whitetails were in trouble because you and your friends couldn't hammer a bunch of big bucks the past few years.

    Oh, the irony![/QUOTE

    i know it is confusing but lab guy is not black lab...reading comprehension or maybe old age..early dementia? Lol
    Hey, cut us old guys some slack, I often confuse FD with Jelvis, so I can understand.

  9. #389
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    Re: Never again?

    [QUOTE=blacklab;1894555]
    Quote Originally Posted by horshur View Post

    Hey, cut us old guys some slack, I often confuse FD with Jelvis, so I can understand.
    I can see the similarities now that you mention it lol

  10. #390
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    Jun 2010
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    Re: Never again?

    I hope blacklab is following the recent posts on his thread and supports the bigger picture.


    I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards and forums. - F L Wright


    Try and be kind to everyone but fear no one. - Ourea


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