Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 34

Thread: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Region 2
    Posts
    1,339

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    I will address the issue of the ban first. First Nations are one of the key promoters of the ban, if one were to watch the news and read the sights BC First Nations are completely different than those in Alberta, Washington, Montana, the Yukon and Alaska as they do not kill grizzlies as they are too sacred. If that is the case they should lead by example and be the first to sign an agreement to never hunt a grizzly again! The reality is quite different of course. They only reason they support the ban is because it will allow them to kill as many grizzlies as they want while CHARGING people to view them. They get to have their cake and eat it to. Until conservation is based on science instead of race problems will only get worse, much much worse. For all sides.

    Regarding the BCWF, it could be the group to lead. It just doesn't want to be. In my opinion many on the BCWF leadership are more concerned about not being wrong (or having their wrong doings discovered) than about doing what is right. I firmly believe that the BCWF could be a force by the 2021 election. But to do that they have to do a few things. First, they should call a full and complete audit from the regional levels up. The audit should be completed in time for the 2018 AGM. That would give 2 years to restructure. Not a lot of time but it has a solid foundation so it wouldn't require that much. They should also do better at self promoting and more selective. For example, a booth at the Merrit Music Festival is a waste a as it is the wrong crowd/attitude. Yet the BCWF does significant work in the are. Promote with in the town and you will draw locals who actually care for less cost. They also need to be more forthcoming with its members. There seems to be a notion that they work in a vacuum and that all the rumours are contained. I can assure you they are not, they only get worse.
    I don't shoot innocent animals... Just the ones that look guilty!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2,469

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by GoatGuy View Post
    The concept sounds good.

    For the wildlife management realm things work well when there's trust, accountability, integrity and a focus on science-based management. When one or more of those are missing, not so much.

    The exclusive/unilateral/predatory approach diverts time, energy and resources away from important matters. The days of spending 98% of time on 2% of the problem are over.
    Exactly Jesse, and don't forget that applies to all parties actions when it comes to accountability.
    Right now there is no unblemished team.
    Neither mine, yours, theirs or ours.
    I would suggest you think about that.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Toon town
    Posts
    13,138

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    Exactly Jesse, and don't forget that applies to all parties actions when it comes to accountability.
    Right now there is no unblemished team.
    Neither mine, yours, theirs or ours.
    I would suggest you think about that.

    Personally, never seen teams. A group of loosely organized individuals, or well organized agendas.

    As said, best to invest in the relationships that provide a return lol. Time is precious.
    Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.

    Mandela

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Yucatan Mexico
    Posts
    14,893

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by bearvalley View Post
    Exactly Jesse, and don't forget that applies to all parties actions when it comes to accountability.
    Right now there is no unblemished team.
    Neither mine, yours, theirs or ours.
    I would suggest you think about that.
    Where do the Talhtan stand on this issue...since they have several hands in the GO industry and have no problem hunting grizzly bears??
    https://oceola.ca/
    http://bcwf.net/index.php
    http://www.wildsheepsociety.net/

    I Give my Heart to my Family....
    My Mind to my Work.......
    But My Soul Belongs to the Mountains.....

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    in the woods
    Posts
    1,610

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulehahn View Post
    I will address the issue of the ban first. First Nations are one of the key promoters of the ban, if one were to watch the news and read the sights BC First Nations are completely different than those in Alberta, Washington, Montana, the Yukon and Alaska as they do not kill grizzlies as they are too sacred. If that is the case they should lead by example and be the first to sign an agreement to never hunt a grizzly again! The reality is quite different of course. They only reason they support the ban is because it will allow them to kill as many grizzlies as they want while CHARGING people to view them. They get to have their cake and eat it to. Until conservation is based on science instead of race problems will only get worse, much much worse. For all sides.

    Regarding the BCWF, it could be the group to lead. It just doesn't want to be. In my opinion many on the BCWF leadership are more concerned about not being wrong (or having their wrong doings discovered) than about doing what is right. I firmly believe that the BCWF could be a force by the 2021 election. But to do that they have to do a few things. First, they should call a full and complete audit from the regional levels up. The audit should be completed in time for the 2018 AGM. That would give 2 years to restructure. Not a lot of time but it has a solid foundation so it wouldn't require that much. They should also do better at self promoting and more selective. For example, a booth at the Merrit Music Festival is a waste a as it is the wrong crowd/attitude. Yet the BCWF does significant work in the are. Promote with in the town and you will draw locals who actually care for less cost. They also need to be more forthcoming with its members. There seems to be a notion that they work in a vacuum and that all the rumours are contained. I can assure you they are not, they only get worse.
    glad someone else see`s that music thing as silly. nothing to do with our activities at all.
    ya i get it was for donations. but im sure it cost something to be there.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2,469

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Sheep Steve View Post
    Where do the Talhtan stand on this issue...since they have several hands in the GO industry and have no problem hunting grizzly bears??
    Direct the question to the Tahltans, Brent.
    I don't speak for them.
    Their members that are outfitters have no issue in hunting grizzly bears.
    Last edited by bearvalley; 11-26-2016 at 02:35 PM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    in the woods
    Posts
    1,610

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    what ive read from that groups statement is if your non native or dont live there, beat it. for any animals.
    they call it trespassing on their land more than an animal thing

    "The group is calling for hunters that do not live in the territory to respect this situation."

    "All members of the public that do not receive permission may be stopped, particularly non-Tahltan hunters, from trespassing on Tahltan reserve lands and using the road."

    "The road in question has been identified by the Tahltan as in trespass as they claim it is not a public road. This means the Province has no tenure for the road."

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    North Van
    Posts
    1,888

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    "So to summarize, the BCWF is not strong enough to represent us going forward on hunting issues.
    We need an organization that speaks for all hunters equally".

    The question of whether the BCWF is the right vehicle to do what we want is a fair one. The answer depends on several issues. It's worth examining those issues because the BCWF has a lot going for it.

    First, it has a fairly large membership, as you point out, but it also has a lot of organizational infrastructure. That's nothing to sneeze at. Creating that from scratch wouldn't be easy.

    Second, we need to come together to decide 1) who we are and 2) what our goals are. You're suggesting an organization that represents FN hunters, non-FN resident hunters, and guided hunters in order to preserve our privilege/right to hunt. I'm not sure I'm 100% with you on that, so there's a concrete example of what I mean when I say who are "we" and what do we want.

    Third, if we come together and decide who we are and what we want we need to test if the BCWF is the vehicle.

    What I'd like to see is a body that can persuade the government as well as a significant portion of the population that we need to manage wildlife according to the North American Conservation Model, with the twin goals of protecting and enhancing our traditional right to hunt as well as maintaining and enhancing diverse and sustainable wildlife populations and landscapes.

    What that would look like is a government that explicitly commits to scientific management of wildlife, and that holds wildlife as a public trust, not as a resource to generate revenue. When someone argues that we have to stop a grizzly hunt because its not moral, and because FNs regard the grizzly a certain way, and because the g-bear hunt is a proxy for something else, the public conversation would pit the two against each other: science vs. a political agenda. We've seen that in the climate change fight, and while both sides can be said to be pursuing an agenda there's no question that the role of science is well respected. When it comes to wildlife in BC we actually have people arguing that science is not the appropriate method for conservation decisions. This has to stop.

    We would also see an honest accounting of the economic benefits of hunting, from the money spent on it to the value of the sustainable harvest, in conjunction with honest discussions about where our food comes from. Right now the economic benefits that are discussed and accepted are the benefits that accrue to a small group of (and I use the term generously) "stakeholders". This has to stop. There is only one valid stakeholder - the public. Everyone else claiming that label is merely a special interest group. Wildlife and the landscape belongs to all of us, regardless off race, wealth, gender or politics.

    We would also see a recognition that man has been a hunter for 100s of thousands of years. While not every person in our long history has hunted, we all evolved as hunters and hunting is in our DNA.

    There are more examples of practical applications of the NACM, protecting and enhancing our right to hunt, and protection and enhancement of a sustainable landscape with a healthy and diverse wildlife population, but I'll leave that for now.

    We can argue with each other (and by each other in this sense I mean all British Columbians) over who will hold the levers of power and what they will then do with them. That's not the way to go. A better route is to harness the communication power of the internet (whether the educational power of youtube or the opinion influencing power of social media) as well as the crowd-sourcing power that we see today (whether to raise money or labour) and use that to change the culture so that we don't argue about things from a low information basis ("I support the g-bear trophy hunt ban because g-bears are endangered and trophy hunting is barbaric" to "All of us in this province manage wildlife so well that everyone who wants to, not just rich people who can pay, can see grizzlies, elk, moose and whatever, and everyone who wants to can hunt and fill their freezers with healthy, organic free range sustainable meat").

    Again, is the BCWF the vehicle? I don't know. However, I will point out (and I'm not making any value judgements on anyone's politics - I'm just providing data): as early as 2009 Steve Bannon identified a problem that had to be solved, and he identified several obstacles to the solution. The first one he identified was the Republican Party. He said he had to either break it or take it over. If you don't know who Steve Bannon is, he's the rebel outside the box thinker who appears on stage with President elect Trump, unshaven, and without a tie. In less than a decade he's gone from an outsider with a goal and a plan to achieve it to being the guy behind the guy (which is probably why he's accused of everything short of being a child pornographer).

    I'm not saying the BCWF has to be either broken or taken over. But clearly it's possible to re-focus it to make it more effective. I don't know enough of its members to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if many of them were in fact very supportive of making the sort of change I'm talking about. After all, who doesn't like clean air, clean water, wildlife, wild landscapes, and access to all four things?












    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey
    "Grown men do not need leaders" - also Ed Abbey

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2,469

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    Rob, I cannot disagree with what you are saying.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Surrey, BC
    Posts
    13,183

    Re: BCWF- Grizzly Statement

    This is a pretty limp statement from the federation.
    That's all I'm going to say about that.
    1. Human over population
    2. Government burden and overreach

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •