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Thread: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

  1. #41
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    Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    Great rodeo!! Thanks for posting! Congrats!
    "Pimpin' aint easy"

  2. #42
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    Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    holy shit Noggin ! You said you were going for a rum , so I did too ! I have been sitting here glued to the screen with a bottle of my own ( well into my third now ) my works calling wondering where i am ! My wife hasn't seen me for day's , hav,nt shaved for days ! Can't wait for the final installment !!
    You sir should write books !
    Deano

  3. #43
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    Arrow Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Daybreak View Post
    Is there an avenue for those that participated to provide some feedback as to improve the situation?
    No. Not beyond what I am doing with this thread it seems. "They" do NOT want any such advise.

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryToolips View Post
    Great write up, congrats on the bull!! Wow that was quite the bachelor group 125 is a lot...
    Not really when one understands that before this Fiasco, it actually numbered into the Thousands

    Quote Originally Posted by dmace View Post
    holy shit Noggin ! You said you were going for a rum , so I did too ! I have been sitting here glued to the screen with a bottle of my own ( well into my third now ) my works calling wondering where i am ! My wife hasn't seen me for day's , hav,nt shaved for days ! Can't wait for the final installment !!
    Why should I write books when I can publish my meager musings for Free??

    As for the next installment - Fasten Your Seatbelt...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

  4. #44
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    Cool Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    Well, caught up on the To-Do list, so time to put some of my final thoughts on this matter to bed...
    There will follow some rather strong words & opinions, so reader be warned - do not proceed further if you are concerned at all about your blood pressure level!

    Although many were opposed to rounding up the wild horses on the base and getting rid of them once and for all, it was agreed between the Provincial & Military management teams that was the proper way to proceed. For the purposes of those who own and operate the Base, perhaps it was. For those living around the base... well... at least the horses could recognize a fence...

    The concept behind the re-introduction of elk to the prairies, and establishment of their self-sustaining presence there, was both a bold and worthy undertaking. Those who originally set about this project with the most honorable of intentions are to be commended! And I take my hat off to you Gentlemen for this most admirable accomplishment!

    Unfortunately, the actions (and specific lack thereof) since that re-establishment have dictated the program degenerated into the most unmitigated wildlife "management" catastrophe in the history of the Province...

    While the re-introduction was a considerable success, MUCH more attention should have been paid to remedial and management planning before it ever got underway. It does not require Rocket Science when simply logic alone can quite readily predict just what the results of combining superior genetics, access to extremely rich and bounteous food sources, and a complete lack of depredation would spell for the developing herd. Explosive, near exponential growth was soon realized, and yet despite the rather obvious "warning signs", nothing was brought forward by the "management" team to address that. Within a matter of a few short years, the supposed "carrying capacity" number of 800 elk was exceeded, yet still blind eyes were turned towards the worsening situation. When the elk topped four, then five Thousand, incidences of spill over outside the base and related conflicts with adjacent landowners began to sky rocket. Despite demands by those negatively effected, once again "management" drug it's feet and little was conducted beyond lip-service to address their very real concerns.

    Eventually this came to a head, as it had no other possibility of doing under these circumstances...

    Prairie Fire - Alberta's Scorched Earth Policy Towards Suffield Elk

    Thankfully the option of a major round-up and subsequent slaughter of the Base's elk was dismissed in early discussions.
    However, dismissing the suggestion of moderately large capture & relocation programs to other locales within Alberta to bolster diminished populations or establish new ones soon followed. As previously stated, it is this author's opinion that was a drastic mistake. The reasons provided by management for that decision were expressed as there being a possibility of disease introduction / broadcasting to the areas of introduction. This despite the Fact that not a SINGLE incident of CWD, Tuberculosis or Brucellosis had EVER been recorded in any Suffield elk. Many, myself included, consider this dismissal to be one of the greatest "Missed Opportunities" regarding elk management in the Province of Alberta as a whole - and one that would have put the Suffield re-introduction program squarely back into the Beneficial side of the equation.

    By 2012, the elk herd was recognized to have expanded to over 5,000 individuals, and finally, management stepped up to the task at hand. Their vision was that hunting could and would knock the numbers down to a more reasonable level, and help maintain it there. Indeed a worthwhile pursuit. But then the decision was made to "stratify" the hunt by allowing First Nations "Subsistence" Hunters in prior to non-aboriginal Hunters, with no restrictions placed on numbers or sex the FN's could harvest, yet restricting their non aboriginal counterparts to 50 on-base hunters at a time and targeting cows only. That action fueled resentment and outrage among many of the latter group, and articles such as the one linked below became increasingly common as they chose to express their displeasure towards this development:

    www.calgarysun.com/2015/02/03/racking-up-rage--outrage-and-resentment-growing-over-two-tiered-elk-hunt-on-cfb-suffield

    Adding fuel to the fire... In their initial hunts, First Nations showed a decided preference for the larger mature bulls over the cows, taking 469 bulls vs 151 cows.
    It became readily apparent that many involved viewed these as exclusive Trophy Hunts rather than subsistence meat gathering events. And, from the sudden preponderance of "trophy photos" appearing on social media sites, some among this latter group were quite prepared to gloatingly rub salt in that already festering wound.

    Despite that year's FN harvests, 200 cow tags let for non-aboriginal hunters on the base, and an increased number of tags outside / adjacent to the base, it was soon recognized that the recruitment (calving) rate easily surpassed that of harvest, and the herd continued to grow. This spurred an increase in tag numbers all around, but still incorporated the despised race-based stratification between the two hunting camps. In fact, it was not until the 2015 fall season that changes were finally made to the hunt stratification which would allow non-aboriginal hunters access to bull tags.

    Hunter behavior during the initial hunts was quite ethical and safety conscious in comparison to more recent years, likely a refection of their lower numbers. With increasing tag numbers let and increasing FN participation, behavior entered into a near precipitous free fall. In the words of the article cited above: Hence, the need to kill them off by the hundreds, in what many have deemed a dangerous, chaotic cull, rather than a true hunt.
    Dangerous indeed as witnessed by the occasion of a rifle bullet punching through the driver's door of a hunter's truck the very day after our Crew left the base.
    One of a great many "close calls".
    In very much is a wonder, under the conditions described, how no-one has been seriously hurt, or killed to date.
    Controversy surrounding these "hunts" continued to be predominant in most discussions about them. First hand reports of FN "hunters" shooting from trucks on the fly, driving at speed around any perceived competition, flock shooting with excessive realized wounding rates, leaving dead / crippled elk behind in the frenzied pursuit of killing as many as possible - then failing to locate / retrieve wounded individuals that had moved any distance from those initially killed, running elk herds to the point of collapse - then executing every individual in the herd, "hunting" for multiple days while carcasses piled in the backs of trucks and on trailers were continuously exposed to excessive heat and dust, and of course much more, became a routine occurrence. Certainly not all the reports of abuse (for there can be no other word for such behavior) were directed towards nor focused on FN's. Simply due to their sheer numbers (often completely overwhelming those of non aboriginal participants) they were the recipient of in kind greater numbers of such reports. That said, it should be noted that at least an equal representation of non-aboriginal "hunters" were witnessed conducting themselves in the exact same manner.

    On the topic of hunter numbers, it was noted that for non-aboriginal hunters they would be held to no more than 100 persons hunting at a time (with obvious overlaps between the bull & cow hunters under this year's regime). The reason for doing so was cited as chiefly based on Safety. The FN's however were governed by no such limitation, and arrived en masse at the majority of the earlier openings - at times outnumbering their counterparts by as much as three or four times. The sheer numbers of combined hunters entering the fray fairly well precluded that their resulting activities could be well described as a desperate race of sorts, with caution, safety and ethics simply tossed aside for a great many in both camps. Dangerous mixture under any circumstances, quite truthfully chaotic and repugnant behavior on the part of far too many participants.

    ...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

  5. #45
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    Thumbs down Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    Earlier I noted my questioning of the No Photo Policy upon the Base. For as suggested then, one can easily zoom right in with Google Earth and collect a rather fine view of pretty much any location on the base you wish to. Upon reflection, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps that rule was imposed not so much as to prevent prying enemy eyes from seeing what they shouldn't, but perhaps much more so to prevent the documentation of the type of activities outlined above from being presented front and center in the general public's eye. For most certainly such images would have resulted in a public outcry to end these "hunts", or at least to manage them in a much more responsible manner.

    During the briefing we attended, some of the above points were alluded to, albeit in a tangential manner. Numerous infractions from this year alone were cited which resulted in equipment seizures, charges & subsequent hunting prohibitions, and actual lifetime bans from entering the base. As was the at times 40 % recovery rate of all elk taken during a particular hunt represented by wounded animals being shot, and recovered from Out Of Bounds Areas by base personnel. That fit right in with our understanding that should you not get your elk, or perhaps did not even hold a tag but were willing to sit idle at the check out station for a day or two, those recovered without an obvious claimant might well fall into your hands. On local fronts, it was interesting to observe that elk meat was readily available for purchase in local Communities, and that indeed, if you did your homework, so might well be a rack from a good sized bull.

    The vast majority of such behavior is Intolerable for a true Hunter in my opinion. A fair amount of what we witnessed made my blood fairly boil. Those I mentioned previously that were observed flock shooting into a herd on the run in the desperate attempt to put down a bull - any bull - were not aboriginal. And while I understand that was happening among their hunting crews as well, methinks many who decried such actions might want to take a good long & hard look at their own. We saw very little in the way of "ethics", and damn near a complete lack of concern for safety or the hopes and desires of others. It very much was Every Man For Himself among the vast majority present, something that rather Sickened the Crew I was in attendance with. This simply has never been the way we conduct ourselves, and it felt damn near shameful to recognize we had become a part of this complete travesty.

    In the larger picture of things, the Base may have actually pulled off more or less what they were looking for, and at least some of the surrounding ranchers are breathing a little sigh of relief as a consequence. While the Base recorded some 1,600 kills, I am suggesting it was MUCH higher than that. Certainly those killed on the base were track-able, and certainly that number is likely very close to being sound. What they fail to take into consideration is the number killed off base this year. Perhaps if "management" would take the time to cultivate any sort of reasonable relationship with area landowners, they might begin to grasp the nature of those impacts. Many I spoke to when there, and since arriving home, describe the same pattern: They were simply Sick of the lack of response to their pleas to Do Something, sick of the cost to themselves and their neighbors of the consequences of that, and subsequently resolved to take the matter on themselves as best they were able. And when that entailed inviting FN hunters to their properties to annihilate any and all elk found there, they were in agreement. Get 'Er Done. And it was. From what I now understand, I believe the off base kill may actually exceed the number removed from the base itself this year...
    Combine these factors with the stress of the later season hunts causing many cows to abort (which has indeed been well documented in other areas) and the overall kill, and it's effects on the elk population as a whole, may well have tipped the balance far beyond what was being sought.

    Combine that again with the number that fled in sheer panic. Confirmed reports put some herds as far to the east as the Sand Hills in Saskatchewan. Others well past Manyberries, over to Milk River Ridge and the Cypress Hills. Others still well beyond the areas north of the base, and some still going. The only area I am uncertain of at this point is to the immediate (and further) west of the base, as I know but few in that direction. Some bio-types and some base staff suggest these elk will eventually return. They have failed to incorporate the nature of the beast when it comes to elk. These are not entirely stupid animals, and they tend to learn rather quickly from adverse conditioning. Those that did not learn died. Those that chose to stay knew & still realize just where to hang their hat in order to avoid that same fate. And those that left were well conditioned to the fact that vehicles, and loud Bangs, represent a Very Serious Problem for them. Suffield is a military base after all. Complete with a myriad of vehicles, and at times, one hell of a lot of loud bangs. Anyone who believes the ones that escaped will return anytime soon to that particular environment might well want to think again!

    There will be a census conducted shortly now to determine just how many elk remain. From what our rather experienced crew saw while there, I'd be quite hesitant to suggest there were anywhere near a thousand left on base, including the Sanctuary & OOB areas. From what the locals so willingly have informed me, the immediately adjacent areas are damn near devoid of them. For many days following the last January hunts, several of my experienced Buddies and a handful of Ranchers took time out from their regular schedules to have a good look. The areas around the base were subsequently described as "barren", and further the areas they could see upon the base itself held "damn few". I will be watching for the results of this survey with anticipation, although I am reasonably certain as to it's outcome.

    The Big Boy I referred to in the tale above exists, as do his lieutenants. They have obviously become conditioned to the Insanity that has swept in around them, and well know how to avoid that. I find it more than a little disturbing to recognize that they represent The Last of their kind. The tattered remnants of what actually was until just so recently ago, the Largest Free Range Herd of Elk in North America. I sincerely hope they all survive the winter well, and carry on to produce a healthy crop of followers...

    My involvement in this "hunt" was based upon the understanding that there were some real Giants walking our prairie there, and that perhaps one could actually pursue them in a realistic hunt format. That, combined with a yen to see the lands of the base first hand after hunting around them for so many years. Upon retrospect, I wish I had not gone. Yes, I managed a good eating youngster under most trying conditions. There is nothing to "congratulate" for that in my opinion. It was simple fluke. And I must admit, participating in this Fiasco (for that is most certainly what the entire show was) has left me with a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth, and a sincere questioning of many who call themselves "Hunters".

    This was NOT a "Hunt" by any definition. Nor was it a "Cull" as suggested by some. I have been directly involved in real culls wherein Professional Shooters were engaged to deal with the task at hand. This very much was a "herd reduction" experiment. Uncontrolled Mayhem. An experiment that may have realized the "reduction" component, but in any other consideration a complete Failure in many people's eyes.

    Should the base re-open in the future (and there is some cause for doubt of that), I will not be back. Although there were a few interesting moments, I simply cannot wash away all the negative connotations that go with them. For those that still wish to wander there, Good Luck, Fill Your Boots, Put On your blinders as to ethics, and for ChriSakes don't forget your bullet proof vest!

    I did not set out to make any friends with this last installment, simply calling the situation as I saw and see it.
    Some will have had obviously differing experiences and therefore conclusions.
    Mine are firm, and I can only Hope that "management" might be listening... for a change...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

  6. #46
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    Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    Wow!!! What an experience. Way to persevere, thanks for sharing.
    kenny
    I love it when the seasons change.
    Fishing to Hunting.

  7. #47
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    Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    Great write up, not a hunt I'd like to partake in thou. I work with a guy that was successful hunting there last year and I heard about the horror stories. He put it the same way as you, definitely not a "hunt"

  8. #48
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    Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    Thanks for sharing an on the ground experience.

  9. #49
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    Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    Well written, thanks for sharing.

  10. #50
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    Thumbs down Re: Suffield Alberta - The Prairie Elk Experience

    And now the gov end is claiming 1,600 was the TOTAL kill this year? Really??? Just how far out to lunch are they???

    Awaiting the upcoming aerial census with bated breath!!!

    Cheers,
    Nog
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNNhzkJ-UU&feature=related

    Egotistical, Self Centered, Son of a Bitch Killer that Doesn't Play Well With Others.

    Guess he got to Know me

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