Koota elk population

[happyhunter]

We who live and hunt in the kootenays noticed the increase in preds and decrease in game years ago! And when we spoke about it we were slammed for sharing our anecdotal evidence and called shitty hunters. We were told by some here that we didn't hunt hard enough and should spend more time in the bush. I have little respect for these members who now have done an about face and preach about the predator issue as if they ever had a clue about it. All these facts and study's but you guys can't see the forest for the trees!

[6point]

We who live and hunt in the kootenays noticed the increase in preds and decrease in game years ago! And when we spoke about it we were slammed for sharing our anecdotal evidence and called shitty hunters. We were told by some here that we didn't hunt hard enough and should spend more time in the bush. I have little respect for these members who now have done an about face and preach about the predator issue as if they ever had a clue about it. All these facts and study's but you guys can't see the forest for the trees!

Yep! the first time I found this site a few years back I asked about animal populations and stated that there was getting less and less game around the areas that I live and hunt in. I was jumped on and called a troll. told there was lots of game left and I just wasn't good enough to find it! a year later many of the same members that jumped on me for claiming a drop in ungulate numbers suddenly where doing a 180 and jumping on the wolf wagon acting as if they had been on that side of the fence the whole time.

[Husky7mm]

But Husky (who lives in the Peace) is telling us it's not predators, and that hunters in the EK aren't seeing winter kills or predator kills.

Pat, who lives in the OK has always had a world of second hand, regurgitated knowledge to share from his perch behind his computer.
To be clear I never said it wasn't a predator problem. I was questioning if it had gotten worse in the last few years. You see here in the peace its polluted with wolves, IMO much more than the EK that I recently moved from. Seeing wolves here is common, I have seen 15 plus this year alone. Their tracks are layered down every bush road. People are constantly killing them too, there are hunters here that have up to a few dozen wolves under there belts. Thats a shit pile of wolves. Where are the EK wolf kills? Are there more wolves than there was 2 years ago? Need I remind you that I was accused of having my hair on fire a few years back when I brought up my concerns about predator numbers there, as a resident I will add?!?!

[GoatGuy]

Well lets just put away the books and suppress any new thoughts then, we are done learning and advancing. Science has never been wrong, no one has ever looked back at the past and said " man I cant believe we thought like that, I cant believe what we did, I cant believe what I thought was true? "

What about mathematics? There are more hunters than there are elk. 1 wolf needs about a deer a week to live off of, without a wolf reduction when will all the ungulates be gone? How many elk have permanently taken up residence at the mines? How many migrate to Alberta in the winter and are hunted in Jan and Feb? All factors of this decline.

The world is made up of a few different sorts. At the end of the day there are three types: one that makes decisions based on beliefs, one that makes decisions based on a combination of science/beliefs/experience, and one that makes decisions based on science. The colours move from white to shades of grey to black. That isn't about being 'right' or 'wrong', that's about the discipline and rigor a person puts into forming an opinion or making a decision.

Where one fits into those 'shades of grey' is their choice.

[GoatGuy]

These papers were probably already posted

They are nevertheless GREAT:

http://www.carnivoreconservation.org...e_2000_msc.pdf

http://www.motherjones.com/files/2-p...management.pdf

http://www.cfc.umt.edu/research/hebl...lfElk_2013.pdf

http://www.cfc.umt.edu/research/heblab/projects/yaha-tinda-elk.php

http://www.cfc.umt.edu/research/hebl...Banff_2014.pdf

There are links to other papers/projects in those links.


Just as a bit of an aside there is no 6 pts season, 'rut hunt', 'trench hunt', 'mine hunt', 'bow only season', rifle season, youth season, cow season, senior season, cow season, LEH season, or any season at all for that matter in Banff.