Ask your LEH questions here...

[JIL_24/7]

Sounds good off the hop however, at the end of the day your odds of drawing would be the same because everyone would be getting put in more as the years go on adding that many more to the pot

I may be wrong but that's how I see it
BH

The other issue is that what would eventually happen is that every first time applicant would essentially be out of luck. Once this system got going you would find that you would have to wait four to five years before you get a draw. It would be better at that point to simply make reservations 5 to 6 years out for every interested hunter and not let anyone make a reservation more than once every six years. That would take all the luck out of it and ensure equal chances for everyone, but you would always be on a waiting list and there would be no eager anticipation every year for the LEH. I may be off here, but that is kind of how I see that process playing out if you were to double each persons chances each year.

[BiG Boar]

The way they have done it in the states makes more sense. Its as sugested. Not like alberta where the highest takes it. The way they work in the states for things like the desert sheep is:
First year you apply you get 1 chance in the pot
Second year you get 2x2=4 chances in the pot
Third year you get 3x3=9 chances in the pot
Forth year you get 4x4=16 chances in the pot
Fifth year you get 5x5=25 chances in the pot
Sixth year you get 6x6=36 chances in the pot
And so on.....

The good thing about this system is:

a. you get more chances the more years you apply, a guy who applies for 4 years has a much better chance than the guy who has applied for 2, and the guy who has put in for 10 years has a much better chance than the guy who has put in for only 2 years.

b. you can go for (points only) lets say you have something you know you're going to have to do, you put down a hunt code of 9999 and that way you keep building priority but you will definitley not be in the draw this year.

c. you can give back your tag if you can't do the hunt, and it goes to the next guy in line

d. you get a bonus point if you take a hunting saftey course

e. you may only kill one bighorn in your life on LEH or every 5 years, or whatever is decided.

This kind of system still gives everyone a chance, but gives better chances the longer you put in.

[bighornbob]

Bighornbob, with my idea of doubling the applications for every year that a hunter isn't drawn for an LEH hunt, the first year you get one application, second unsuccessful year you get two, year three you get four applications, year four you get eight applications, year five you get sixteen applications, and if you're still unlucky, for year six you get thirty-two applications for that hunt... I think it would work!

Your odds still stay the same as everyone that did not get drawn gets the same number of entries and the ones that did not get in right from day one have even worse odds. For example: A moose hunt with 10:1 odds, lets say 4 tags and 40 guys apply each year.

Year 1: 40 guys apply and 4 get drawn
Year 2: 36 guys apply (each has 2 entries) and 4 new guys apply with one entry. And 4 get drawn.
Year 3: 32 guys apply (each has 4 entries) and 4 guys apply with one entry. And 4 get drawn.
Year 4: 28 guys apply (each has 8 entries)
Year 5: 24 guys apply (each has 16 entries)
Year 6: 20 guys apply (each has 32 entries) etc etc

As you can see the odds still remain the same at 10:1 for the initial guys. Anyone starting after the very first year would be so handicapped by the lack of entries that they statistically would not a get a moose tag for 10 years. Imagine a 18 year old kid starting hunting and finding out there is little chance at getting a tag for at least 10 years.

The system would work for hunts in the 5:1 odd range but since most of our hunts are way higher odds it would not work.

BHB

[bighornbob]

The way they have done it in the states makes more sense. Its as sugested. Not like alberta where the highest takes it. The way they work in the states for things like the desert sheep is:
First year you apply you get 1 chance in the pot
Second year you get 2x2=4 chances in the pot
Third year you get 3x3=9 chances in the pot
Forth year you get 4x4=16 chances in the pot
Fifth year you get 5x5=25 chances in the pot
Sixth year you get 6x6=36 chances in the pot
And so on.....

The good thing about this system is:

a. you get more chances the more years you apply, a guy who applies for 4 years has a much better chance than the guy who has applied for 2, and the guy who has put in for 10 years has a much better chance than the guy who has put in for only 2 years.

b. you can go for (points only) lets say you have something you know you're going to have to do, you put down a hunt code of 9999 and that way you keep building priority but you will definitley not be in the draw this year.

c. you can give back your tag if you can't do the hunt, and it goes to the next guy in line

d. you get a bonus point if you take a hunting saftey course

e. you may only kill one bighorn in your life on LEH or every 5 years, or whatever is decided.

This kind of system still gives everyone a chance, but gives better chances the longer you put in.

The problem with hunts like that is at some point it will be impossible for you to draw. There are some states where you can get up to a max of 15 points. There are so many guys with max points and so few tags that anyone starting to try for a sheep hunt that is older then say 35 years old stands zero chance at getting a tag by the time they are 65.


There are some smart guys down there that have even included a death rate of hunters in the equation to weed out a few of the max point guys. There are a few guys in their late 30's that have stopped applying all together (zero chance of getting drawn) and have started putting their 10 year old kids names down. They have given up on themselves and pray that thier kid will get drawn and hopefully they will still be in shape enough to join them at camp for thei sheep hunt.

You are right the types of draws you talk about still give a chance but the odds are still the same for all but the very first ones to get in the drawing game.

BHB.

[Essential]

Okay at what point do we privatize this sham they call "currently processing" and get this done in less than a week like it should really take!! Christ they even said that they were not correcting any errors this year, so that lame excuse is out the window too! Only in the BC gov't can you be this slow at your job with out consequences!!

[Rob]

Does anyone know what the process is? Computer or manual? As much as im sure their working hard at it, I dont understand why it takes 20 days or so

[markt308]

man I wish it only took 20 days or so! that would be sweet

[reach]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife.../leh_10_11.pdf

It is highlighted on page 4!!! TRUST US, it has been this way for some time.

Now you made me go back and look Yes it's there in 2010-2011, and all the way back to 2005-06 (the earliest PDF copy I have) but it is NOT there for 2011-2012 which is where I looked. It's there in every other year, just not the one that I checked (of course... Murphy's Law and all that)

My bad (sort of). Anyway they've put it back for 2012-13 and it's crystal clear now.

As for the other discussion - any sort of points system you put in place can never get you that draw any sooner on average. If there are 10 x more applicants than authorizations, you will always wait an average of 10 years if it's a fair system. Some may wait longer; some shorter. All that a points system can possibly do, mathematically, is reduce the "variability" (standard deviation). In the extreme it can make it so everyone waits exactly 10 years for that 10:1 hunt (or 40 years for a 40:1 hunt, etc.) but it cannot get you that draw any sooner on average. The decision was made to give everyone a chance every year, even though it means some people may be drawn multiple times and others may not be drawn for long periods.

[SUAFOYT]

Okay at what point do we privatize this sham they call "currently processing" and get this done in less than a week like it should really take!! Christ they even said that they were not correcting any errors this year, so that lame excuse is out the window too! Only in the BC gov't can you be this slow at your job with out consequences!!

They can only work with the tools that they are given. Give the small group a break already.

[abbyfireguy]

They have minimal staff,minimal support and are not one of the government units that any MLA cares to trow money or attention at.
Doing the best they can...
They definately need some help if improvements are to happen. But with the current priorities I doubt that will ever happen.
We just have to learn patience when waiting to be told we won a Mature Bull Nil yet again!!