Five Point Bull Elk

[GoatGuy]

Your comment about the number of elk between Reg 4 and Reg 8 is the key here. This conversation started because there was discussion of so many elk in Reg 8 that a 3pt season should be implemented. "reg 8 has a fraction of the elk".

Whether we're managing by objective or minimum trigger is almost irrelevant. Unless you define both. At least in Reg 4 we're creating new opportunity based on some criteria. And adjusting. Of course there is a social pressure. I guess that's life. To many people worried about themselves. And too bad about the 5000 elk in the fields, 5 years ago, there was 15000. I was pushing for 30,000. It doesn't take long to bring the population down. To someone's target objective. But I/we as hunters don't make the rules, we operate within them. At least we have an opportunity here for input.

I'm not sure about your reference to your recent hunt unless it's just to admit that you too see better hunting in the EK than Reg 8. I agree. Not seeing other hunters in the area you choose to hunt is great.

Yes, if it's a question of sustainability a 3 pt season could be implemented in parts of Region 8, other places it wouldn't work, same as region 4. Point is, it isn't a sustainability or conservation related issue at all. It's a bunch of social BS. There is no reason for a region wide 6 pts season in region 4 other than social.

The management minimum for bulls is fail safe. All you have is 20 bulls per 100 cows, that is it. The current regulatory regime is not a sustainability or conservation related issue, it's a fail-safe regulation. You are cherry picking, not managing a resource.

I think it's a waste of a resource. Having a road closure on a 6 pts season which no resident hunters ever use is pretty ridiculous. There's no reason in the world why there couldn't be a 3 pts season to incentivize some people to go in and shoot some elk instead of stockpiling them in those areas. I don't hunt elk, have very little interest. Having said that a yearling or two year old bull is far, far more attractive than a 4 or 5 year old. Have no idea what a person does with a collection of 280-320" runts from the EK. A lot of chew toys for the dog. Get a real kick from all the 'big bull' hunters.

[GoatGuy]

Lots of antlerless elk hunting resident hunting LEH in northern Alberta , buddy + his crew always get a draw .

So they have a 3 pts season and antlerless hunting and they still have elk. Crazyness!

[ellenbill]

[QUOTE=J_T;1546761]Your comment about the number of elk between Reg 4 and Reg 8 is the key here. This conversation started because there was discussion of so many elk in Reg 8 that a 3pt season should be implemented. "reg 8 has a fraction of the elk".

Whether we're managing by objective or minimum trigger is almost irrelevant. Unless you define both. At least in Reg 4 we're creating new opportunity based on some criteria. And adjusting. Of course there is a social pressure. I guess that's life. To many people worried about themselves. And too bad about the 5000 elk in the fields, 5 years ago, there was 15000. I was pushing for 30,000. It doesn't take long to bring the population down. To someone's target objective. But I/we as hunters don't make the rules, we operate within them. At least we have an opportunity here for input.

I'm not sure about your reference to your recent hunt unless it's just to admit that you too see better hunting in the EK than Reg 8. I agree. Not seeing other hunters in the area you choose to hunt is great.[/

Cam you explain what you mean by "we're creating new opportunity based on some criteria" I have seen no change for Elk other than hunting in the trench below 1100 metres and that's a zoo.

[358mag]

So they have a 3 pts season and antlerless hunting and they still have elk. Crazyness!

Not sure if its a GOS for bulls or what there antler restrictions are . But yes they do have elk ,most of my buddy's hunting is done on private farm land and getting permission is a little tough .
Sure we could also have a 3pt season out here too but for how long and would it be in the best interest of the elk or just the best interest of the hunters . Would make great round table talk at the next allocations meeting .
Guess we could also push for a 3/4 curl GOS for region 4 bighorns and see how that goes too ......

[Mikey Rafiki]

I don't hunt elk, have very little interest. Having said that a yearling or two year old bull is far, far more attractive than a 4 or 5 year old.

Can't tell the difference between my 6 pointer this year and my spiker from last year except for another 100 pounds of premium venison. My uneducated guess would be 3.5 years old so maybe I hit the sweet spot on size and taste. They were both taken in early archery season so I think that helps the yum factor too.

Those elk from road closures get hunted hard once they move into the main valleys come October, if we are talking about areas they migrate out of like Quinn Creek. I know all the road closures in the main trench get hunted hard.

I'm all for more opportunity if it's sustainable but it has to be preceded by convincing education, which I fear is impossible as proven when everyone thought the mule deer would go extinct once it went to any buck.

[GoatGuy]

Sure we could also have a 3pt season out here too but for how long and would it be in the best interest of the elk or just the best interest of the hunters . Would make great round table talk at the next allocations meeting .
Guess we could also push for a 3/4 curl GOS for region 4 bighorns and see how that goes too ......

Places that could sustain it and places that couldn't in Region 8. Some spots definitely have to reduce road density, even with the current regime, particularly for other species. Stuff becomes pretty easy with funding for inventory and clear objectives. Convoluted when people don't want to increase inventory and funding, but would rather put in their 0.02, and increase their own slice of the pie. Seems pretty common, even more clear when reading the proposals.

Allocations meetings probably wouldn't be the best place for discussion, as conservation pokes it's head out seldom to never. People show up looking for a handout instead of trying to make more wildlife.

With the handouts, poachers, inflated population estimates, and historical over-harvest bighorns in Region 4 have their own set of problems. That was before a couple bad winters. Guess is the harvest will be less than 15 rams this year for the whole region. Again, branch staff are probably busy writing responses to quota appeals instead of working on wildlife populations in Region 4.

The days of the "me" people.

[GoatGuy]

Sure we could also have a 3pt season out here too but for how long and would it be in the best interest of the elk or just the best interest of the hunters . Would make great round table talk at the next allocations meeting .
Guess we could also push for a 3/4 curl GOS for region 4 bighorns and see how that goes too ......

Places that could sustain it and places that couldn't in Region 8. Some spots definitely have to reduce road density, even with the current regime, particularly for other species. Stuff becomes pretty easy with funding for inventory and clear objectives. Convoluted when people don't want to increase inventory and funding, but would rather put in their 0.02, and increase their own slice of the pie. Seems pretty common, even more clear when reading the proposals.

Allocations meetings probably wouldn't be the best place for discussion, as conservation pokes it's head out seldom to never. People show up looking for a handout instead of trying to make more wildlife.

With the handouts, poachers, inflated population estimates, and historical over-harvest bighorns in Region 4 have their own set of problems. That was before a couple bad winters. Guess is the harvest will be less than 15 rams this year for the whole region. Again, branch staff are probably busy writing responses to quota appeals instead of working on wildlife populations in Region 4.

The days of the "me" people.

[GoatGuy]

Can't tell the difference between my 6 pointer this year and my spiker from last year except for another 100 pounds of premium venison. My uneducated guess would be 3.5 years old so maybe I hit the sweet spot on size and taste. They were both taken in early archery season so I think that helps the yum factor too.

Those elk from road closures get hunted hard once they move into the main valleys come October, if we are talking about areas they migrate out of like Quinn Creek. I know all the road closures in the main trench get hunted hard.

I'm all for more opportunity if it's sustainable but it has to be preceded by convincing education, which I fear is impossible as proven when everyone thought the mule deer would go extinct once it went to any buck.

If we're seeing 340 bulls in the ek I think a bunch of them are escaping bullets when they push down.

your last sentence is bang on. Going on close to 20 years without doe hunting mule deer in the ek with little sign of "abundance" and people are still concerned with any buck. So sad.

[LBM]

The hunt achieved the objective.

There are a ton of areas in the EK that could sustain a 3 pts season, namely every road closure. There are still a pile of spots in the EK that have extremely high sex ratios - areas where there are literally no elk shot other than a couple by the outfitter. Hunted for 10 days there, we saw two (2) hunters the whole time in an area that is about 25 kms long.

Your last sentence is a bit of an embellishment. If you want a few spots where the boys are running into lots of elk I don't mind sharing. Just have to lay some boot leather down.

Don't think you can consider all road closures as the same, a couple buddys and I have been in a few this year and seen more hunters then anything, even the ones that still drive in.
But I will take you up on your offer about sharing we will bike/hike into the area where you only saw 2 hunters send me the info. Thanks.

[358mag]

Places that could sustain it and places that couldn't in Region 8. Some spots definitely have to reduce road density, even with the current regime, particularly for other species. Stuff becomes pretty easy with funding for inventory and clear objectives. Convoluted when people don't want to increase inventory and funding, but would rather put in their 0.02, and increase their own slice of the pie. Seems pretty common, even more clear when reading the proposals.

Allocations meetings probably wouldn't be the best place for discussion, as conservation pokes it's head out seldom to never. People show up looking for a handout instead of trying to make more wildlife.

With the handouts, poachers, inflated population estimates, and historical over-harvest bighorns in Region 4 have their own set of problems. That was before a couple bad winters. Guess is the harvest will be less than 15 rams this year for the whole region. Again, branch staff are probably busy writing responses to quota appeals instead of working on wildlife populations in Region 4.

The days of the "me" people.

Nice to see that someone sees the big picture we have to be conservationist first if we want to continue hunting . The days of the me me II are hopefully in the past .
Must be time for a road side campfire and cold happy pop