Experimental Recreational Halibut Fishery

[Ricky Bobby]

RB,,, maybe your captain came from a family of fishermen,,, maybe he is 4th generation commercial and earned his way to that Mercedies you are talking about..... maybe not.. maybe he busted his hump somewhere else... to earn his way there... I dont know... but

Some of them really and truly earn it. I will not begrudge someone successful for work however when the Government gives away a public resource then expects us to buy it back when the commecial sector doesn't even use their quota up, thats BS. You want money made look at the $/pound value of commercial vs recreation fish.

More money to be made by Canadian Government and people if we reclaimed quota openned up the recreational fishery and let more US, European, Asian clients come and fish.

[835]

You are right, the money made by Sport caught is WAY more then commercial. that is what i am saying.
Now what they did at These resortes as i remember is they allowed the resort to buy out the liscense and its attached quota. The resort then sells the quota to its guests.... Yes it takes it out of Residents hands,, but it also takes it out of commercial hands... Now for the govern ment to then give the Commercial sector more fish after allowing Sport industry to buy the liscense and its attached quota would be wrong, yes. We have to hope that doesnt happen...

Yes it is all one big money grab, and those of us with out the money wind up loosing... But this way at least the dead fish earn more money per pound...

[Ricky Bobby]

You are right, the money made by Sport caught is WAY more then commercial. that is what i am saying.
Now what they did at These resortes as i remember is they allowed the resort to buy out the liscense and its attached quota. The resort then sells the quota to its guests.... Yes it takes it out of Residents hands,, but it also takes it out of commercial hands... Now for the govern ment to then give the Commercial sector more fish after allowing Sport industry to buy the liscense and its attached quota would be wrong, yes. We have to hope that doesnt happen...

Yes it is all one big money grab, and those of us with out the money wind up loosing... But this way at least the dead fish earn more money per pound...

My understanding is that much like one boat leasing another boats quota these lodges are leasing quota from Commercial guys. This means every year Commercial guys are paid to sit year after year.

These guys (commercial fishement) were given quota. This quota they then lease out to other guys. Kinda like the Government gave them $1,000,000 (of your money) and they are now just renting that money back to you and me every year. Thats BS to me.

Secondly you want the most made, how much of the Commercial allocation was fished last year? What was their utilization? If Residents are consistently going over and we make a significantly larger contribution finacially per pound wouldn't it make sense to re-distribute the quota.

I don't care if Commercial guys want to give it up. They should never have been granted it in the first place, its illegal and wrong and needs to be corrected.

[835]

Why is it illegal?

I guess the part i am missing is how the quota landed in the hands of the liscense holder..
That is a critical bit

[lowband6]

I believe the commercial resorts are causing a lot of the problems for the resident sports fisherman. As I understand it there is a target recreational catch each year for salmon,halibut etc. More fish than we could ever harvest, but add on these ever expanding commercial resorts and the numbers don't work. Maybe its time for them to get their own allocations and leave the recreational allocations to the resident sports like it was originally intended.

[fowl language]

if nobody bought quota both commercial and sports from the license holder, then what. they would have to fish it themselves or lose it. imagine....fowl

[Opinionated Ol Phart]

There are some you on his board that need to tune up your understanding of how the give a-way of our halibut resource came about.

You can start here: http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/memorandum_of_fact_and_law_-_halibut_allocation_hearings.pdf


Against the wishes of the SFI and the SFAB, the "Experimental License" was made available to lodges, guides and rec fishermen.

It is BS that we should have to buy fish that all ready belongs to all Canadian

[Geo.338]

The issue is paying a commercial interest for something that doesn't belong to them in the first place.

They do not own the fish until they have caught them . Sport fishermen are paying commercial guys for something they do not own . Win win for them and the sporties and residents are being raped . I have a problem with this also .

[835]

There are some you on his board that need to tune up your understanding of how the give a-way of our halibut resource came about.

You can start here: http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/memorandum_of_fact_and_law_-_halibut_allocation_hearings.pdf


Against the wishes of the SFI and the SFAB, the "Experimental License" was made available to lodges, guides and rec fishermen.

It is BS that we should have to buy fish that all ready belongs to all Canadian

[/QUOTE]


Right, thank you OOP. i know i am the guy this is aimed at.... and this is why forums exsist... to inform people... my mind gets changed every day from information i learn about our sport... information and learning.
this is something that was eluded to earlier, hence my Question as how the quota came to the Commercial sector.

To me it seemed a way to get commercial quota into the Resident/Sport sector.
That was how i was looking at it. I dont like the idea of having to buy quota...

My thinking... ( numbers are not accurate im just using them to describe my thinking )
100% of the halibut
of that say 50 went to Commercial back in the 79 to the 435 liscense holders.. And recreational was never counted because in 79 they didnt think we had enough impact to count on.
So since '79 the 435 liscense holders have fished their share of the quota.
Since then private sector has bought and sold and traded that quota around... ( sometimes t the fat guy in the mercedes!) All the while we Sporties never counted.


Flash forward.
Now, people are seeing the impact we all Commercial and Sport are having on halibut. But that quota has long since been private,, since before sport impact counted.
So that 50% that has been bought and sold... since '79... DFO cant change that,, its kinda like the land on SVI... The government gave it all away.. since then private industry has bought and sold it.....
So now all the government can do is Manage us... or buy back that quota to be freed into open Sport fishing. And yes that sucks. The Government sold out the public a long time ago.... and now we are seeing the impact of deals done 40 years ago.


So, again... i am just trying to understand the "Flow" of this all...
and Opinionated Old Phart is helping at this.


To me... the real question is .. How do you get that quota out of the commercial sector? Other wise things like this will always come up or the fish will dissapear..

[IronNoggin]

Ain't been online much of late, and this is the first I am seeing this discussion...

Kind of surprised by the source Dru...
You're usually a tad more astute than what's presented here.

Thanks to Old Phart for his link and comment. That goes a fair ways towards describing the situation...

"How do you get that quota out of the commercial sector?" And therein lies The Crunch. Many minds have been working diligently on just that task, but is is NO "Simple" one. Political Pressure (Town Hall Meetings, Writing Campaigns etc) did produce a minor re-allocation of quota two years back now, and the government has stated that is all there is for "wiggle room". The fact that matter is still in court seems to suggest just how problematic any real adjustments continue to be...

The basic underlying premise is this: The Government "gave" away access to a Public Resource. Although guised as "access", in reality what they transferred was "Ownership" of fish still swimming. An Illegal Maneuver as defined by the Canadian Supreme Court.
Now, that Public Resource has been transformed into a Privately Traded Commodity, and as often happens with such "stocks", those who "own" it are careful in their ongoing manipulations to realize the largest return possible from their "holdings". Thus what was originally "gifted" has become an enormous economic driver for those who retained their slice of the pie, or in some cases, accumulated as much as they possibly could. Given the economics involved, it is more than a bit of a nightmare to get the situation "back on track".

My thought is that a court challenge of the original resource allocation might well succeed, based on related findings by the Supreme Court. That however would take a HUGE investment of time and money, all the while battling both the commercial sector and the government (who of course uses your own resources against you) simultaneously. Coming up with a sufficient "war chest" to proceed is damn near an insurmountable undertaking right from the get-go. But, eventually, it may well have to come down to that methinks...

As for the original query: We should NOT have to buy "access" to a Public Resource. The Resource itself belongs to ALL Canadians, not simply a select few The Dino favors. Buying into this "Ponzi Scheme" is a serious mistake, and if successful, will set the trend for many other fisheries to follow. I do not know anyone who has purchased said quota, and the negative reaction amongst the sportfishing community thankfully has kept this to a dull roar. Any who step outside the solidarity are branded with the stigma for doing so. This is as it should be IMHO. And for certain, we must continue the efforts to realize Fair & Equitable Access for ALL!!

Nog