Mule Deer and Antler point restrictions

[coach]

If I'm not wrong the 4 point seasons were implemented to give hunters hunting opportunities not killing opportunity. Personally I like and enjoy 3 months of deer hunting 2 of witch are largely unimpeded by hunting pressure. Its way more enjoyable than a anythingthatmooves season that lasts for 1 week.

4 point seasons weren't implemented to extend seasons - therefor they weren't created to increase opportunity. We used to have twice as many hunters and a 3 month "any buck" season and deer populations were healthier than what we have today.

Your second point makes it clear you favor managing hunters rather than wildlife. Unfortunately what's best for some hunters isn't what's in the best interest of our mule deer population.

[wos]

4 point seasons weren't implemented to extend seasons - therefor they weren't created to increase opportunity. We used to have twice as many hunters and a 3 month "any buck" season and deer populations were healthier than what we have today.

Your second point makes it clear you favor managing hunters rather than wildlife. Unfortunately what's best for some hunters isn't what's in the best interest of our mule deer population.

I never said 4 point seasons were implemented to extend seasons I am very aware of the gradual shift towards them so we can keep our long season. Trust me I would love nothing more than 3 months of any buck hunting and a 2 week doe season but I just don't see it being sustainable. And yes I think unfortunately the powers that be have found its easier to manage hunters than wildlife. I'm not trying to stir the pot I just love hunting and always have and always will. If arbitrary laws like antler restrictions or hunting methods are what it takes to keep a season open I'm willing to play the game. I think the deer numbers are still above avrage in the areas that I hunt I can only speak from my own obsorvations form the last 25 years

[coach]

I never said 4 point seasons were implemented to extend seasons I am very aware of the gradual shift towards them so we can keep our long season. Trust me I would love nothing more than 3 months of any buck hunting and a 2 week doe season but I just don't see it being sustainable. And yes I think unfortunately the powers that be have found its easier to manage hunters than wildlife. I'm not trying to stir the pot I just love hunting and always have and always will. If arbitrary laws like antler restrictions or hunting methods are what it takes to keep a season open I'm willing to play the game. I think the deer numbers are still above avrage in the areas that I hunt I can only speak from my own obsorvations form the last 25 years

The regulation process starts at your local club level. "Management" concepts such as APR's begin with a few like thinking people convincing their club to push for these types of regulations. Each club in the region then has their own voice at the regional meetings. From there, the region puts forward proposals to the ministry. Through consultation with the regional bio and other stakeholders, decisions are made as to what regulations should be put in place. As the top mule deer minds in North America agree that APR's are not the way to go, he fact that we have them at all goes right back to the beginning - the local club level. Want to make a difference? Join your local club, join the BCWF, educate yourself on the science of mule deer management. Write your MLA, express your desire to see money from fishing and hunting license sales put directly back into the resource and that you want to see positive steps taken toward habitat enhancement and predator control. Volunteer your time to assist with habitat projects.. There's so much more that can be done than sitting around waiting for "the powers that be" to make things better.

[the bear]

instead of reg. changes implement more rd. closures and enforce them. For example the closing of the entire Skull Mtn. rd. system would increase mature buck recruitment

[emerson]

I'm confused. Antler point restrictions seem counterproductive. Is the point that restrictive seasons don't help much either? It doesn't matter what we do about hunting seasons because that doesn't help enough? Without active resource investment in growing deer (and maybe moose) populations they won't survive? If that's true it will be a tough go competing with health care,education, road maint etc. I know I don't have any extra money at my house. I would rather have a long season where I was restricted in my harvest method (bow etc) than a 3-5 day blast fest like region 6 moose.

[squeege]

In the Peace region there is an obvious problem with Mule deer population levels due to back to back high snow pack and fairly generous hunting opportunities (antlerless and 3 point). Back in early 2000 there was the one buck in three year 4 point rule and there were lots of deer and big bucks everywhere. .

Since the complaints from the agricultural community back in 2005 (I believe) to reduce the number of deer due to poop in the grain and crop losses, a change in deer management was implemented by increasing antlerless and any buck opportunities. Since this time the Mule deer population has been decimated which, I guess, was the general idea behind the change in regulations in 2005ish.

I think it is time to implement something similar to what we had back in early 2000. I understand that using antler restrictions can change the structure of the "herd" but limiting the number of bucks killed, as with the one in three year rule, will also increase the population. A responsible hunter hunting under a regulation with limited opportunities such as the restriction mentioned above, has to take the time to determine if the animal is legal. In a lot of the cases that amount of time to determine legality of the animal is what will save the animal as it escapes.

As for animal misidentification or poor hunter ethics, this will always be a dark part of hunting but overall the idea is to strengthen herd numbers by reducing the numbers of animals taken due to a selective regulation over a general open season or less restrictive regulation.

And what about other restrictions on other species in BC. Mature or Full Curl rams, 5 point bull caribou, tri-palm or 10 bull point moose, 6 point bull elk, 4 point whitetails. These restrictions are placed on these species so that a limited number are harvested and the key is "limited number". With the theory that reduction in mature breeding population is being impacted I don't disagree, however not all of the Full Curl rams or 10 point bull moose are being shot and some of the younger males in the population will still breed even though they are 2" shy of a full curl or a 9point bull. Some of these animals that are not considered legal by restrictions still have healthy genetics.


I think antler restrictions are better than having animals on a short season or LEH. In fact I would rather shut down a season for a 3-5 year period to let the animals repopulate than to have a short any buck or antlerless season. I think the antler restriction can be used as a short term management tool effectively to bring back populations to healthy levels while still allowing for hunter opportunities.
.

[mooseslayer]

4 point seasons weren't implemented to extend seasons - therefor they weren't created to increase opportunity. We used to have twice as many hunters and a 3 month "any buck" season and deer populations were healthier than what we have today.

Your second point makes it clear you favor managing hunters rather than wildlife. Unfortunately what's best for some hunters isn't what's in the best interest of our mule deer population.

More of a question I have and I don't want to hijack the tread away from antler restrictions- When there was less access & 3 times as may hunters; do you think less accessibility played a large part as to why these populations were healthier? If so; before making any changes should we deal with the accessibility of prominent mule deer areas as a first step to producing healthier populations of all types of bucks for all types of hunters (except ppl. with disabilities, age, etc.)?
Thanks.

[Sitkaspruce]

Squeegee

You are again managing hunters. We are not the problem, we need to stop thinking that the few deer we kill every year is having a major affect on the population.....it is not. Up here winters, vehicles, major pred numbers, habitat, whitetails, trains and possibly even the elk all play a bigger roll in the MD population than some hunters. Yes the agricultural community has a big say in how our population is managed: they were the driver behind the gos for does and the any buck season.

Sadly, this year we have major snow fall and some roller coaster temps, which will benefit the press. The one good thing is the deer went into this winter in great shape due to the wet summer. Let's hope for little snow, a quick, warm spring and we all get out and reduce some of those preds to help the deer.

I do not want to see the 1-3 buck season nor do I want to see hunter opportunity reduced. We need to deal with the bigger problems first.

Cheers

SS

[Wild one]

I have said it before would rather see the prov bag limit change to 1 mule deer and do away with point restrictions. Help spread the hunting pressure throughout the season. Trophy hunters will hold out for their goal and meat hunters can take a spike if they choose. It will cause some to pass on younger bucks because if they fill their tag they can't just jump to another region in hopes of a trophy. Should see a mixed age class harvest and will not promote poor genetics.

In my opinion it would be worth at least a test run but it would take multiple seasons to see results. Yes it is another form of restricting hunters but there is always going to be some form of restriction

Just like anything else some will like it some won't and some are open to change others are not.

Just another hunter without a degree's opinion and don't doubt there are holes in my theory

[squeege]

Squeegee

You are again managing hunters. We are not the problem, we need to stop thinking that the few deer we kill every year is having a major affect on the population.....it is not. Up here winters, vehicles, major pred numbers, habitat, whitetails, trains and possibly even the elk all play a bigger roll in the MD population than some hunters. Yes the agricultural community has a big say in how our population is managed: they were the driver behind the gos for does and the any buck season.

Sadly, this year we have major snow fall and some roller coaster temps, which will benefit the press. The one good thing is the deer went into this winter in great shape due to the wet summer. Let's hope for little snow, a quick, warm spring and we all get out and reduce some of those preds to help the deer.

I do not want to see the 1-3 buck season nor do I want to see hunter opportunity reduced. We need to deal with the bigger problems first.

Cheers

SS

I agree with everything you said other than we are not the problem. We are part of the problem there is no doubt. I think winters and predators (Humans and the four legged kind) are the biggest contributing factor to deer population decline but there comes a time when we have to step back and implement some form of restrictions/management which may include reducing the harvest opportunities and I'm all for it. M

Mule deer are at a level in the Peace where they should be getting rig of the antlerless LEH and Im glad to see it back to four point restriction to allow for a recovery for a few years. I would rather see a healthy population in a 5 year time span with limited hunting opportunities than continue to have sub-mediocre mule deer hunting and low population numbers. As long as the restrictions are revised once the populations return then Im all for it.

Antler restrictions, especially on Mule deer, can be an successful management tool if used effectively over a period of time while still allowing for hunting opportunities.