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John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Topic was touched on today in his announcement. Person mentioned similar to the Grizzly ban what he thought about the wolves. Definitely a topic of contention - said he would look into it. Could have another ban debacle on our hands in a year or two.
Very frustrating to listen to
I've linked it here - at about 15 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocpIshA6EXI
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Excellent catch. Thanks for that.
As most should understand there is a new development on the....political landscape. The aim is to introduce the idea of a Social License to Hunt, with the clear goal of removing that license incrementally. It's a manufactured issue, in my opinion, but it is very effective by muddying the requirement for science.
The way it will work out is that there will be a call to remove social license to hunt in the absence of enough science to justify the hunt.
Of course, as anyone who tracks this understands, hunters are committed to science but we recognize that the problem is that the science is usually lacking.
The who want SLH reduced are very happy that the science is lacking, because that helps promote their agenda.
They also want to expand the definition of science so that mere wildlife biology is reduced in importance and softer social sciences are able to play a bigger role.
You can find that tactic used in other applications, and we've seen it recently with Covid, protests, and whether the protest is acceptable despite protest. Racial equity is huge health concern, so an anti-racist protest is absolutely fine during the pandemic, while other gatherings that don't qualify as equally important don't get that pass. We witnessed that during 2020.
What that was is a combination of hard medical science (don't congregate during a pandemic) and softer social science (sometimes it's ok to congregate during a pandemic). The combination leads to an internal conflict.
The idea that we can do wildlife management on a hard science basis (an intact, balanced ecosystem as the measure of success) combined with the softer social science (a balanced system is desirable, but not if we need to kill something big, furry and cute) will lead to the same sort of conflict.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
It is frustrating when wildlife management is politicized but it seemed to me that he was mostly dodging the question. Talking about his constituents and how they generally feel. And I would say that he is quite correct about that, most of his constituents were pretty pissed about Takaya. Look at where he represents. In the past the language has been more about British Columbians as opposed to constituents.
But he also knows full well how the province is managing wolf numbers as part of its caribou recovery plan and I think he understands that there is no way to proceed with that plan without predator control. And predator control through aerial gunning and trapping is far more effective on a population level then moose hunters opportunistically taking a crack at some wolves.
Just my 2 cents
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Sounds to me like his mind was already made up. He will definitely side with the anti's. One thing to note was that the person asking the question to the premier references a quote by a female big game hunter who stated her objective was trap an entire group or family of wolves. What I would like to know, is where the reporter found this quote. Social Media I would think. WE keep shooting ourselves in the foot with social media. When will people learn to be careful with statements on social media.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rob Chipman
Excellent catch. Thanks for that.
As most should understand there is a new development on the....political landscape. The aim is to introduce the idea of a Social License to Hunt, with the clear goal of removing that license incrementally. It's a manufactured issue, in my opinion, but it is very effective by muddying the requirement for science.
The way it will work out is that there will be a call to remove social license to hunt in the absence of enough science to justify the hunt.
Of course, as anyone who tracks this understands, hunters are committed to science but we recognize that the problem is that the science is usually lacking.
The who want SLH reduced are very happy that the science is lacking, because that helps promote their agenda.
They also want to expand the definition of science so that mere wildlife biology is reduced in importance and softer social sciences are able to play a bigger role.
You can find that tactic used in other applications, and we've seen it recently with Covid, protests, and whether the protest is acceptable despite protest. Racial equity is huge health concern, so an anti-racist protest is absolutely fine during the pandemic, while other gatherings that don't qualify as equally important don't get that pass. We witnessed that during 2020.
What that was is a combination of hard medical science (don't congregate during a pandemic) and softer social science (sometimes it's ok to congregate during a pandemic). The combination leads to an internal conflict.
The idea that we can do wildlife management on a hard science basis (an intact, balanced ecosystem as the measure of success) combined with the softer social science (a balanced system is desirable, but not if we need to kill something big, furry and cute) will lead to the same sort of conflict.
I would suggest that if the scenario you envision unfolds there would be a huge amount of opposition from the Guide Outfitter community. There is no justification for what they do other than money. They are definitely not hunting to sustain themselves by using the game harvested to feed their families.?
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
I wasn't going to mention her name, even though it seems she's happy to put it out there but it is in the discussion section of this Facebook thread.
https://www.facebook.com/takayalonewolf/
She's been in the media spotlight before.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/troph...esko-1.3974716
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MichelD
Thanks for the link. So between Facebook and W5 here we go again. It's to bad that all these people who think there going to prevail in this, and like to post pictures of there successes, don't realize the damage they are doing. The Hunting and Trapping community in this province is small compared to the rest of the population. Get the other 95% fired up with these social media posts and kiss hunting good by. Sure won that one eh?
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MichelD
Thanks for the links. Some one needs to enlighten her about her ambitions VS wildlife politics in BC and the negative affect she is having posting the wolf stuff she does.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
The wolf kill is being held up in court......by a group who had never done a thing for wildlife.
https://pacificwild.org/were-taking-...ment-to-court/
Cheers
SS
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
What a disaster. Thanks for posting.
M.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
3than
Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.
everything about this is frustrating. The negligence and polarizing narrative of the antis as well as the ridiculous public statements by some "hunters". Some people shouldn't be allowed access to social media
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Golddust
everything about this is frustrating. The negligence and polarizing narrative of the antis as well as the ridiculous public statements by some "hunters". Some people shouldn't be allowed access to social media
Hopefully one day all hunters and trappers will get the concept that there consequences to your actions, some good and some bad. When it comes to social media it is usually all bad. We need to encourage one another to use discretion when posting and stay off facebook with your hunting and trapping activities. If you need to brag phone some one
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Social media is nothing but a fire starter.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kos
Social media is nothing but a fire starter.
That's right. Don't believe everything you read online.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Ya ban it all you want I’ll auger a hole in every one I see Horgan can pound it.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MichelD
Just read the article. She honestly doesn't sound like a great ambassador for the hunting community. Maybe I'm just use to listening to Steve Rinella who probably wouldn't use the line "The more you hate, the more I kill."
On another note, with the trophy hunting mentioned in that article, have any of you watched the film 'Trophy' on Netflix? I am not pushing an agenda by recommending the film, its just another side of what people see trophy hunting as. Although, from how it is portrayed in the film, I wouldn't consider any of it ''hunting.''
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BiohazardHands
Just read the article. She honestly doesn't sound like a great ambassador for the hunting community. Maybe I'm just use to listening to Steve Rinella who probably wouldn't use the line "The more you hate, the more I kill."
On another note, with the trophy hunting mentioned in that article, have any of you watched the film 'Trophy' on Netflix? I am not pushing an agenda by recommending the film, its just another side of what people see trophy hunting as. Although, from how it is portrayed in the film, I wouldn't consider any of it ''hunting.''
No she has always sounded smug and arrogant, I watched a facebook thread where she completely bashed a couple that were new to cougar hunting. Her and blacktailstalker from here dragged this couple through the mud for taking a younger male cougar. People just new to cougar hunting, learning the ropes themselves attacked by elitist hunting mentality. I felt so bad for them, they were so excited. Like anyone taking their first buck.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
[I wonder how the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers would react to photos of wolves eating animals while they are still alive. Seeing a deer trying to stand with its guts hanging out. Yes such a sweet gentle cuddly animal . toQUOTE=3than;2232465]Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.[/QUOTE]
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Unfortunately many of the wounds that tarnish the image of hunting are self-inflicted. The combative, inflammatory language some hunters use on social media is intended to challenge or provoke people who question the validity of a hunt. As a consequence, we lose opportunities to rationally and respectfully educate the non-hunting public.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
I think we need to use social media for our advantage. When tourist observing grizzly bears see a boar disembowel a cub they scream for someone to kill it. Real life scenes like these with wolves doing their worst will sway the masses. We need to educate the public and the government. IMO
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blueback2014
[I wonder how the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers would react to photos of wolves eating animals while they are still alive. Seeing a deer trying to stand with its guts hanging out. Yes such a sweet gentle cuddly animal . toQUOTE=3than;2232465]Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe we need to get more footage of stuff like this out on the social media sites... for comparison and shot of reality...
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sitkaspruce
the wolf cull is going ahead, there has been changes to the wildlife act recently to allow arial gunning.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blueback2014
[I wonder how the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers would react to photos of wolves eating animals while they are still alive. Seeing a deer trying to stand with its guts hanging out. Yes such a sweet gentle cuddly animal . toQUOTE=3than;2232465]Social media is a killer for hunters/trappers especially when the "kill em all" type attitude is being shown to people. It definitely doesn't make hunters/trappers look good.
[/QUOTE]
While I understand your passion, enthusiasm and frustration, you gotta be careful what you say to the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers. They are the main audience of our Government and the ones who's wishes will be responded to. We as hunters are in the minority, like it or not. Part of the problem we face as hunters is people among us who are not very articulate or well suited to speak on these issues. They let testosterone and anger rule their narrative, instead of a good political narrative and a reasoned response. Best to let those on are side who speak well talk for us. Doing the shock and awe campaign on the condo dwellers will just turn them off, and then you have lost their attention. They will write you off as red necks and be done with you.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
So... Horgan is once again pissing you off?
Good.
Bloody GOOD in fact!
Maybe, just maybe that will be the lever to get some of you off your asses and do something about it!
In a related post on another Forum, I was pm'd and asked my opinion of the apathy among our hunting Community.
Here's my public response:
I wrote a reply to a pm recently that was centered on these matters...
Not going to id just whom it was from.
Thought about it a spell, but decided I simply want this off my chest...
"While I am neither shocked nor surprised, I am more than dismayed.
The lack of attention and focus will be our downfall.
Apathy has always been the greatest single weapon working against us.
Unfortunately that is now counted on explicitly by all of our enemies.
And our side continues to munch popcorn and sit on their collective asses.
Some of them deserve what is coming...
Ticked - Matt"
Still ticked today.
Information was posted on multiple sites.
Only interest it really gained was the usual dogfight on Gun Nutz.
Perhaps all of 3 of 4 noted they were going to submit counter letters to those listed.
So, is this latest from Horgan enough catalyst for any of you to write a letter or two?
Or are you all simply content to continue to sit on your asses munching popcorn, and complaining to The Choir? :roll:
Wondering...
Nog
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
325
Unfortunately many of the wounds that tarnish the image of hunting are self-inflicted. The combative, inflammatory language some hunters use on social media is intended to challenge or provoke people who question the validity of a hunt. As a consequence, we lose opportunities to rationally and respectfully educate the non-hunting public.
Wrong.
For decades before social media and internet people were "respectfully educating" the public about hunting. And we lost opportunities.
Now people are using "inflammatory language". We lost opportunities.
So we lose opportunities regardless of what we do.
It's called Stockholm syndrome. When you beat someone senseless and they believe you are doing it for their benefit.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Yeah the hunting culture war has been lost in Canada...If I made a living off the average middle class hunter I would be looking at a career change...maybe this is why BCWF focuses so much on habitat..they see the writing on the wall for hunting...
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Picture this, a campaign style poster. On the left side a picture of a wolf with the caption "This is the face of a baby killer".
On the right side a picture of a wolf pack covered in blood feeding on a moose/caribou calf.
Story under photo:
"Each year scenes like this play out across BC as an unchecked Wolf population expansion decimates the populations of BC's Ungulates. The increasing Wolf populations are expanding into new areas using the vast networks of resource roads built in support of industry. As Ungulate populations fall this scene will begin to play out in your communities when Wolves, finding little food left in our forests, begin preying on other available food supplies such as family pets and children. Please support the Wolf population correction project"
(Can't say Wolf Cull people lose their shit).
BDD
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Vld 43,While I understand your passion, enthusiasm and frustration, you gotta be careful what you say to the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers//%%hey i know many really good hunters living in condos,,,dont paint,them all with same brush. ,,,
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
finngun
Vld 43,While I understand your passion, enthusiasm and frustration, you gotta be careful what you say to the cappuccino sucking condo dwellers//%%hey i know many really good hunters living in condos,,,dont paint,them all with same brush. ,,,
Not trying to paint everyone with the same brush. Just trying to make the point that there are few people in this province who hunt compared to those who don't hunt. As the majority don't hunt, I believe we as hunters need to take care how we engage the non hunting community. They have no skin in the game and are more likely to view hunting based on emotional principles vs practical or scientific ones. Get on the wrong side of them, or disrespect them and they will turn on you. The quote above you mention was posted by another and I just used to respond back.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chilcotin hillbilly
the wolf cull is going ahead, there has been changes to the wildlife act recently to allow arial gunning.
Maybe down in your area you have a "Manager" who has decided to allow the hunt to continue, but up here, we don't have that "Manager" and right now it is closed. The Bio who looks after the project was instead working in the Omineca instead of up here. The argument they are using is that the Contractors don't have the authority to use helicopters; they are saying the contractor is no different than you or me using a helicopter. Aerial gunning is not the issue, its who is who is doing the shooting that they are tying up the project with.
I haven't talked to anyone in a couple weeks, so maybe it is back on again, but in mid January, it was not.
Cheers
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
3than
I just knew that Horigan would cave on this. He is not a hunter and has little time for hunters. Has no interest or understanding of what we do.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VLD43
I just knew that Horigan would cave on this. He is not a hunter and has little time for hunters. Has no interest or understanding of what we do.
It was expected. You can't mix politics and wildlife management anymore. You can tell from the video he has no knowledge of hunting and has no interest in it.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
We need more stories/videos posted of a pack of wolves following a deer that they slashed the hind legs so bad it was walking bleeding to death. The wolves were scared off but came back in the dark and ate the entire deer, except the large bones and vertebrae.
Or the moose cow that had been bitten and chewed on and was losing strength and the 6 wolves took her down.
Both times no camera or gun. But I don't sled or fish empty handed anymore.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
The biggest problem here is our failure to see Jadresko as the biggest problem. Openly posting and boasting about all the kills one makes, and especially on social media is the stupidest thing any hunter can do. Even more so with predators. The anti hunting movement seem to have a soft spot for the critters that would gladly kill THEM.
If we want to see hunting continue in this province, we need to control our own. That’s just the unfortunate reality.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Redthies
The biggest problem here is our failure to see Jadresko as the biggest problem. Openly posting and boasting about all the kills one makes, and especially on social media is the stupidest thing any hunter can do. Even more so with predators. The anti hunting movement seem to have a soft spot for the critters that would gladly kill THEM.
If we want to see hunting continue in this province, we need to control our own. That’s just the unfortunate reality.
There is ZERO chance of 'controlling our own' 100%. Even if 99.5% of hunters all condone those types of posts, dont do anything inappropriate on social media, promote positive hunting and the reasons why we hunt, and portray hunters in a perfect light, the BC govt has just shown that they are willing to make changes based off ONE individuals postings.
There are single individuals in every single group of people that posts inappropriate things on social media. It should be a very interesting lesson for the Jadresko's of the hunting world (of which there are many) but sadly its just been proven that a single individuals actions can cause a government to make changes based on those actions. Ridiculous really.
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
Sounds like a media setup to me...what a joke
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Re: John Horgan - Hunting of Wolves
The Blind leading the Misinformed.
Most of these Anti hunting specialists don't even spend a weekend in the forest never mind a lifetime. Man is here to stay. All wildlife needs to be managed. Including Wolves, G Bear and Cougar.
Pathetic Management practices continue in this Province. And to note. It's NOT Super Natural British Columbia anymore and Never will be.