Re: Force Fetching (Trained Retrieve)
Sorry Rainer but I must disagree with your statement, "You are basing everything on a Top Trial which has not much to do with the average hunter and his dog.Like saying I want to get fit and you give me a workout plan of an Olympian" I titled 5 spaniels over the years and trained countless others as personal gundogs, I train them all the same there is not much difference between a NFC and a good gun dogs. Spaniel trials very closely reflect real hunting conditions including flush/shoot/retrieve and water work. A very good friend of mine took his gundog to the CNFC because as he said if I'm going to go I may as well have a dog in the fight" at the end of the weekend Ace was the CNFC. Another friend took his pheasant/duck dog to some trials and it went to hi-point dog in Canada. So you see top trial dogs and can be "just" gundogs" and gundogs can take it all in the trial world. ANY training technique in the hands of the wrong trainer can be a bad thing but that being said the other 95% of competent trainers use them as effective tools. Don't knock the technique, knock the very few who shouldn't be training period, let alone teaching FF
Re: Force Fetching (Trained Retrieve)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
foxton gundogs
sorry rainer but i must disagree with your statement, "you are basing everything on a top trial which has not much to do with the average hunter and his dog.like saying i want to get fit and you give me a workout plan of an olympian" i titled 5 spaniels over the years and trained countless others as personal gundogs, i train them all the same there is not much difference between a nfc and a good gun dogs. Spaniel trials very closely reflect real hunting conditions including flush/shoot/retrieve and water work. A very good friend of mine took his gundog to the cnfc because as he said if i'm going to go i may as well have a dog in the fight" at the end of the weekend ace was the cnfc. Another friend took his pheasant/duck dog to some trials and it went to hi-point dog in canada. So you see top trial dogs and can be "just" gundogs" and gundogs can take it all in the trial world. Any training technique in the hands of the wrong trainer can be a bad thing but that being said the other 95% of competent trainers use them as effective tools. Don't knock the technique, knock the very few who shouldn't be training period, let alone teaching ff
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BINGO
There was a so called "Pro Trainer" in Kamloops. Every dog that I saw that came out of that camp ran like a pig, ears back, tail down, very unhappy. This person should never have been allowed near a dog and probably should have been put in jail.
Re: Force Fetching (Trained Retrieve)
First of all, I have to agree with both 'labguy' and 'Foxton Gundogs' on using methods of FF for serious training.
Done correctly it is an effective tool and isn't inhumane to the dog. Done improperly or with a lack of patience
it can be cruel though. My first lab came from a breeder that through necessity had to prove his dogs were top
line hunting and trials dogs. He did have certified champions, but he used FF with excessive cruelty which was
a bad thing because many of his customers and others within the field trail community believed it was the way
to train their dogs. Loosely under his guidance a fellow from my workplace and I began training our pups which
we had bought from him but weren't that comfortable in some of his methods so searched out other trainers for
advice. Our contact with the dog breeder came to an abrupt end when we saw him lift his big young male by the
ears and begin kicking him in the chest, stomach and testicles because the dog didn't do exactly what he was
commanded to do. My friend reported him. Both our pups turned into competitive trial dogs and fabulous waterfowl
retrievers because we were fortunate to find a couple of field trials trainers that took us under their wings and helped
with proper FF training methods. That was a great many years ago before using treats became popular. My current
lab is a great retriever but would not make it in the field trial world because he has been allowed to think and take
whatever course he choses to get and bring back a bird. I'm very fortunate he has such a natural drive because by just
using treats alone it would not do the job, especially in the extreme cases when it's very cold or the bird is beyond his
normal range. By using his natural drive and enthusiasm I've been able to train him to 'blind' retrieve by using both
voice and hand commands. I didn't use FF methods on this dog because he was at least a year old without any training
when I got him so it took quite awhile to settle him down. FF training should begin when they are puppies for best results.
Re: Force Fetching (Trained Retrieve)