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Lets Talk about Road Acces
Talking with other members either here or privately, I find there are some differing of opinions.
I find some views a bit alarming.
We all know there is "too much easy access" littered all over the place.
Example would be the Kammy area etc.
It seems some hunters feel "Road Closures" should be put in place.
That's scare me because I have seen that road closures don't work.
Yes, it stops the legal hunter.
But it does not stop any other "Outdoor Users"!
It does not stop hiker and mtn bikers or ORV users , back packers and snowmobilers.
And if the Restriction was extended to them, I guarantee you that the Ministry of Tourism would get some "blow back" to not let that happen!
Also, by asking for road closure restrictions, it again give the government an "Easy Out"!
All it takes is a couple of printed words in the Regs and a few signs hung up.
Also, we have seen, and there is a lot of proof, these restrictions "Do Not Apply to FN".
And we have seen enough to see that they take advantage of their traditional ways.
In other words, all road restrictions due is "kick Resident Hunters" out of the areas.
No one Else!!
Solution is to really go after the government to have "Roads Torn Up"!!
This stops everyone from gaining access!
This gives the game the "break" they need from pressure from all users of the back country.
It limits what poachers and FN can due to access these areas.
I wish everyone would start to think this way.
Drop the road restriction signs requests and fight to have roads just "ripped up"!
Otherwise we are just giving the government an "easy out" and they don't have to go to the
logging industry to tell them they have to waste some of their profits on road destruction!
Honestly, if this meant lumber would cost me a bit more, to save our habitat from such easy access,
I would be willing to pay for that.
We have to limit everyone to get in the back country.
Not just hunters, or we will be sadly disappointed by the results.
I have seen how dismal a 40 plus year road restriction for the use of hunting has resulted in
"0" gain by having that implemented!
There are other factors that have caused the dismal return of game.
Some of it again is over logging (imo) and preds.
What form of poaching is going on, I cant say.
But the opportunity is there, because the roads are there!
Get rid of the roads, and we limit "everyone"!!
Have at it.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
As an ORV enthusiast and hunter with a disability, I take offence at your comments and find them selfish in there origin. Access roads are a vital part of everyone enjoying the wilderness. In your mantra you would limit all access so wildlife populations can increase and provide you with better hunting opportunities. This is selfish in my view.
Over access can have an impact on some populations, I get it. Increased access allows those that wouldn't normally experience the bush an easy opportunity to do so. They can get into some remote places with nothing better than a smart car. This puts those who normally wouldn't experience our great outdoors in a position to understand the beauty of our province and stand up for it, to appreciate it. City dwellers need to understand nature better in order to protect it.
Access roads also provide a way for fire protection equipment to get on the scene in the event of forest fires. Blocking off access to everyone is a bad idea and I find the concept selfish, disrespectful to others, and downright ignorant of the needs of others. IMO.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
I fully agree with you, and so does almost everyone I talk to. I think the problem lies in common vernacular. When I talk to people and they said road closure I will often ask if they mean road deactivation, or ripping up as you call it, and in almost every case they do.
I don't see how it would cost lumber to go up. In most cases harvesters are required to replant. They can just replant right down the middle of the road. It is amazing how fast mother nature will reclaim an area if left alone. I know that if I don't keep the trail around my property cleared twice year it turns into a nightmare
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Island Idiots
As an ORV enthusiast and hunter with a disability, I take offence at your comments and find them selfish in there origin. Access roads are a vital part of everyone enjoying the wilderness. In your mantra you would limit all access so wildlife populations can increase and provide you with better hunting opportunities. This is selfish in my view.
Over access can have an impact on some populations, I get it. Increased access allows those that wouldn't normally experience the bush an easy opportunity to do so. They can get into some remote places with nothing better than a smart car. This puts those who normally wouldn't experience our great outdoors in a position to understand the beauty of our province and stand up for it, to appreciate it. City dwellers need to understand nature better in order to protect it.
Access roads also provide a way for fire protection equipment to get on the scene in the event of forest fires. Blocking off access to everyone is a bad idea and I find the concept selfish, disrespectful to others, and downright ignorant of the needs of others. IMO.
I think you over reaction is due to some "misunderstanding" of what I was saying.
Maybe I should have been a little more detailed.
I am not talking main FSR's.
I am talking about all those roads that branch off all over the place due to logging/timber extraction.
Truth is, some areas, you only have to walk 5 minutes to hit another road!
And I mean that, one after the other, for hours while walking, to the point you can almost get seriously turned around in and get lost!
Also, I have friends with ATV's, so don't get on my case about "not understanding atv users".
I give them full respect, because they practice respect for the roads themselves!
They don't go off road.
Yet, they agree, they can get everywhere, and it is "too much"!!
And if they can, so can others, outside the hunting season!
I get ATVs being a cheaper alternative, and not ruining the more expensive trucks etc.
This is not an ATV thread.
This is an ACCESS THREAD.
Having said that, some ATV users take advantage of the whole situation.
Going wherever they can, road , trail , or just finding their own path!
That's where it goes "too far", imo, and I will stick to it!
Look at the Aschcroft Reserve Fire (elephant hill for politically correct folks!).
Now you cant use them!!
But some others can!!
Get my drift now???
I am talking about many of the "off shoot/spur roads".
And yes, there should be a "no off raid atv policy"...if you want to go there!
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mulehahn
I fully agree with you, and so does almost everyone I talk to. I think the problem lies in common vernacular. When I talk to people and they said road closure I will often ask if they mean road deactivation, or ripping up as you call it, and in almost every case they do.
I don't see how it would cost lumber to go up. In most cases harvesters are required to replant. They can just replant right down the middle of the road. It is amazing how fast mother nature will reclaim an area if left alone. I know that if I don't keep the trail around my property cleared twice year it turns into a nightmare
I have seen a few areas now that use augers to plant trees, it would be effective way of deactivation, the piles are created would bottom out most vehicles.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
I am half and half on this subject. I am all for hunter opportunity on both sides. Those who are to old or disabled to hike endless miles will not benefit from this. On the flip side, those who enjoy hiking and hunting on foot would benefit. I agree that it may give the government a platform to further their anti hunting agenda. I can agree with deactivating smaller overgrown spur roads to an extent. I also like the elevation restriction on vehicles. There are some places in region 3 where you could drive right up into the alpine if you wanted to.
Bottom line I support hunter access to crown land but I can agree that so many new roads be it by logging or fire is or can impact wildlife in a negative way.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
whitlers
I am half and half on this subject. I am all for hunter opportunity on both sides. Those who are to old or disabled to hike endless miles will not benefit from this. On the flip side, those who enjoy hiking and hunting on foot would benefit. I agree that it may give the government a platform to further their anti hunting agenda. I can agree with deactivating smaller overgrown spur roads to an extent. I also like the elevation restriction on vehicles. There are some places in region 3 where you could drive right up into the alpine if you wanted to.
Bottom line I support hunter access to crown land but I can agree that so many new roads be it by logging or fire is or can impact wildlife in a negative way.
I am a total hunter opportunity advocate.
And I know all too well about getting old with serious disabilities.
Don't get me wrong here folks.
Road Access isn't the "big issue" many make it to be.
There are other issues that need to be addressed far before this subject, imo.
BUT, there are others (not me) who do think this is "one of the big ones"!
And many of them "would settle for more road restrictions"!!
And what I am saying is:
"Forget road restrictions" as it would only end up applying to hunters, and hunters only!
If you think there are "too many roads"...…
Then "Think Road Removal" is all.
That restricts "EVERYONE".
If game can come back, by implementing all the things we need to have done in the province, then many of us old guys
will not need to access every inch by vehicle, as game will cross paths with us on the areas where vehicles can still get.
By getting older, us old guys have to accept that we wont get into every spot any longer, and yes, this means we wont get
the elusive 200+ scored buck, because we just don't have the ability.
But if game is more plentiful, there is always chance for one, if even by luck!
But we have to decide how we get game to become more plentiful.
We have to look at previous road restrictions to see "they don't really work"!
But it is an issue that needs to be addressed in some manner.
But as a hunter, I am not willing to pay the price if that means others can still abuse it.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bugle M In
I think you over reaction is due to some "misunderstanding" of what I was saying.
Maybe I should have been a little more detailed.
I am not talking main FSR's.
I am talking about all those roads that branch off all over the place due to logging/timber extraction.
Truth is, some areas, you only have to walk 5 minutes to hit another road!
And I mean that, one after the other, for hours while walking, to the point you can almost get seriously turned around in and get lost!
Also, I have friends with ATV's, so don't get on my case about "not understanding atv users".
I give them full respect, because they practice respect for the roads themselves!
They don't go off road.
Yet, they agree, they can get everywhere, and it is "too much"!!
And if they can, so can others, outside the hunting season!
I get ATVs being a cheaper alternative, and not ruining the more expensive trucks etc.
This is not an ATV thread.
This is an ACCESS THREAD.
Having said that, some ATV users take advantage of the whole situation.
Going wherever they can, road , trail , or just finding their own path!
That's where it goes "too far", imo, and I will stick to it!
Look at the Aschcroft Reserve Fire (elephant hill for politically correct folks!).
Now you cant use them!!
But some others can!!
Get my drift now???
I am talking about many of the "off shoot/spur roads".
And yes, there should be a "no off raid atv policy"...if you want to go there!
I understand you perfectly. You want to restrict my access to the woods. I stand by my earlier comments.
I don’t believe preventing access is a cure for wildlife populations. If I can’t drive my orv to the Alpine I’ll never see it. You want to remove my access to the woods. You need to consider the rights of others.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
I 100% agree. It is in no way selfish to think this way. I believe you are thinking about the environment and the animals first and not your own opportunities. We need to ask ourselves what is best for healthy populations.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Let's simplify the topic.
There are some (hunters) who still consider and advocate for "Vehicle Road Restrictions For Hunting"
I am saying this is a waste of time and doesn't work.
What it does do is stop a hunter, whether it be by truck or ATV, to access the area "legally".
What it does not do is stop all sorts of other users, as well as some who poach and FN.
Nothing positive really comes from it, and game does not flourish because of it.
What would work, is "road destruction" (not just a slight deactivation).
This would limit everyone, of all user groups unless they go by horse or foot.
It does not necessarily mean game will come back, but it does stop easy access permanently, and best of all,
for everyone.
Now, the question is:
How much road destruction do we want to see?
What are we willing to give up in the way of access?
I am willing to see a percentage of spur roads removed.
But, I also would like to have some access as well.
Maybe so much roads per so much land area?
Something like that.
Definitely a debatable topic, imo.
But road vehicle restriction just stops hunters! no one else!
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
We need roads deactivated like they used to back in the 80’s and early 90’s.
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Road density has a proven negative affect on ungulates. It’s well documented.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bugle M In
Let's simplify the topic.
There are some (hunters) who still consider and advocate for "Vehicle Road Restrictions For Hunting"
I am saying this is a waste of time and doesn't work.
What it does do is stop a hunter, whether it be by truck or ATV, to access the area "legally".
What it does not do is stop all sorts of other users, as well as some who poach and FN.
Nothing positive really comes from it, and game does not flourish because of it.
What would work, is "road destruction" (not just a slight deactivation).
This would limit everyone, of all user groups unless they go by horse or foot.
It does not necessarily mean game will come back, but it does stop easy access permanently, and best of all,
for everyone.
Now, the question is:
How much road destruction do we want to see?
What are we willing to give up in the way of access?
I am willing to see a percentage of spur roads removed.
But, I also would like to have some access as well.
Maybe so much roads per so much land area?
Something like that.
Definitely a debatable topic, imo.
But road vehicle restriction just stops hunters! no one else!
In my “non school educated opinion” I think a certain “area” should only have a perentage of fsr / spur roads. Example: We have a valley that has been logged to shit( like my scientific term?). It has spur roads everywhere and there isn’t much for big stands of timber. The ministry/ or whoever should come in and remove a certain amount and replant a mix of native trees and grasses, and “decommission the roads. Then the hunters who have disabilities can still hunt some spur roads, and wildlife will eventually have more habitat, and predators will have less roads to hunt on. That’s my 2 cents. But good luck implementing that.
There is a road above me that goes into a recent cutblock (2/3 years) and they have dug in huge ditches. This stops most traffic, but some atvs could still get access. I’m sure this helps a bit but now preds have a highway. A question for people who run heavy equipment, is it possible to just run a dozer And drag a “claw” behind it that would chew up the road, then replant with native seed mix? Or is that just a fantasy example in my head?
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
It seems like every time this topic comes up I hear the opinion that closing motorized access is selfish because it limits some people’s access. While I agree that it will unfortunately limit the access of some, or even most, my question is when and why did it become our right to have this access in the first place. It seems pretty clear it has negative effects on wildlife, maybe our right to access isn’t what’s important here. I’m no expert by any means, and neither is my opinion the be all end all, but at some point we are going to have to give our wildlife a break.
Not that limiting access is the only action needed, but I’m sure it’s one of them.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Island Idiots
I understand you perfectly. You want to restrict my access to the woods. I stand by my earlier comments.
I don’t believe preventing access is a cure for wildlife populations. If I can’t drive my orv to the Alpine I’ll never see it. You want to remove my access to the woods. You need to consider the rights of others.
I find it ironic that you are accusing someone else of being selfish. It is 100% fact that roads and road access have a huge impact on wildlife. If you do not want to agree to scientific facts than it is very hard to have a conversation.
This conversation is about protecting our wildlife. It we want to do that then we have to be willing to make sacrifices. We do not have the right to drive our vehicles/orv/utv/atv wherever we want. We also do not have the right to hunt animals to feed our families. Those are privileges we have. If we want to keep those privileges then we need to make sacrifices to ensure the wildlife is healthy and thriving. This is why we have LEH areas, hunting seasons, and various other restrictions. We need to just stop thinking about ourselves and our own opportunities and start looking at the bigger picture.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
The road density we deal with in comparison to our neighbours to the south is ridiculous, in similar ecosystems I might add. And their disabled hunters seem to be getting along just fine on smaller % of public land and far less roads. Putting your (in)ability to access an area ahead of an entire local population of a species is the actual selfish stance.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Island Idiots
As an ORV enthusiast and hunter with a disability, I take offence at your comments and find them selfish in there origin. Access roads are a vital part of everyone enjoying the wilderness. In your mantra you would limit all access so wildlife populations can increase and provide you with better hunting opportunities. This is selfish in my view.
Over access can have an impact on some populations, I get it. Increased access allows those that wouldn't normally experience the bush an easy opportunity to do so. They can get into some remote places with nothing better than a smart car. This puts those who normally wouldn't experience our great outdoors in a position to understand the beauty of our province and stand up for it, to appreciate it. City dwellers need to understand nature better in order to protect it.
Access roads also provide a way for fire protection equipment to get on the scene in the event of forest fires. Blocking off access to everyone is a bad idea and I find the concept selfish, disrespectful to others, and downright ignorant of the needs of others. IMO.
How many roads does one need?
Here, in the interior, it's getting tougher to find any amount of landscape one can disappear in for a true backcountry experience.
It is only getting worse.
https://i.imgur.com/2gQFxfN.png
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
IslandIdiot You are the selfish one.
bugleM In your timing of this thread is perfect..
I had a coffee with the region 3 bio last week and although logging companies should be forced to do this i volunteered my brand new 220 excavator and my crew including diesel and mobe to due just this.
I also have a large crew and a bulldozer i informed him in writing afterwards if he helps get the approvals in the right locations we will help with road deactivation prescribed burns ect.
In addition i figured we could get some HBC volunteers if it was organized and given notice. I was going to contact Mark and see if we could start a habitat workers list.. I have 10,000,000 liability and wcb so with a little paper it would be a ll legal.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Ourea no shit no where for the moose to hide in your photo exactly the kind of area i am talking about ripping apart
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Island Idiots
I understand you perfectly. You want to restrict my access to the woods. I stand by my earlier comments.
I don’t believe preventing access is a cure for wildlife populations. If I can't drive my orv to the Alpine I'll never see it. You want to remove my access to the woods. You need to consider the rights of others.
Care to clarify your statement ?
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
There is an interesting parallel to the SCUBA diving world, where divers directly and indirectly contribute to the devastation of coral reefs. I hear similar arguments as above (e.g. we need more people to experience the underwater ecosystems so they understand and appreciate, etc, why should I pay a premium to dive or why do you want to restrict my ability to dive, oceans should belong to everyone, etc etc)
I know it's not exactly the same situation, but please allow me to point out that, in several cases studies, a restriction (note: NOT elimination) of human access to e.g. coral reefs have shown significant improvements to these ecosystems in surprisingly short periods of time ("years" rather than "decades". On a related note, quite similar effects have been shown by teaching and enforcing responsible (dive) practices within these ecosystems.
Again, I know it's not exactly the same, but still.... worth mentioning.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
The forest companies can pay for the deactivation.
Actually there is alot of deactivaton going on recently and I saw immediate results in game sightings over a 2 year period, it helps alot.
I see Island idiots point too, I think that if the mains are left open and many of the spurs deactivated we could reach a very desirable balance.
The argument about leaving roads open so we can get at a fire easier doesn't wash considering human activity causes most of the fires today...and putting them out is a big part of the problem.
Access is great but do we need this many roads?? the roads are there for resource extraction, thats about it, you can think of your favorite lake to fish 30-40 years ago, you used to have to walk in there and the fishing was good, then a road was built and now the fishing is poor....too much pressure.
Its not about being selfish, its about cutting the bs.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
I can tell you that some of the spurs off the back of Scotty Creek were deactivated by a dozer pulling an enormous chain bridle with large “anchors”. Tore the crap out of everything. Work done on behalf of Tolko.
CranePete
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
My point wasn't to Keep hunters out.
My point was, if we only apply the "Motor Vehicle Restriction" to hunters, others can go in.
And they do create damage as well, depending on activity.
On top of that, only the "law abiding hunter" is restricted, were as "other hunters" (if you want to call them that), will
just go in, regardless of the law, or because they say they have "the right to" (don't remember them creating traditional roads....do you???).
On top of that, some areas just have "way too many"!
Nothing can hide, or should I say, move without being seen.
And has anyone ever stopped to wonder why so much of the game has become "Nocturnal"!!???
I am sure part of it is all the daytime traffic.
Again, I am a hunter, and use roads to get into some beautiful areas, and do rely on them.
But, "how much is too much"???
And, ripping up the roads compared to vehicle restrictions ensures "everyone stays out"...not just some.
Iland Idiout, if you are an "ethical/law abiding hunter", there are areas right now that are not allowed to hunt!
You do realize some in the hunting community are advocating for more "hunting vehicle restrictions"???
(which, fyi, means you cant go there anyways)
Also, how do you like the no ATV restriction in some MU's of R3 (if you go there)??
You do realize some still can with atv, just not you, unless you are status??
And correct me, I think there are some areas now off limit to vehicles of all types in some of the R5 fires (I could be wrong), but, not everyone is banned!
Get my drift???
Not trying to be selfish....trying to be fair.
And trying to be fair to the game we pursue also.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CranePete
I can tell you that some of the spurs off the back of Scotty Creek were deactivated by a dozer pulling an enormous chain bridle with large “anchors”. Tore the crap out of everything. Work done on behalf of Tolko.
CranePete
Great to hear!
That is one of the areas I was definitely thinking of when I started this thread.
Also can tell you I see how vehicle closures only "don't help" like in R4.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Island Idiots
I understand you perfectly. You want to restrict my access to the woods. I stand by my earlier comments.
I don’t believe preventing access is a cure for wildlife populations. If I can’t drive my orv to the Alpine I’ll never see it. You want to remove my access to the woods. You need to consider the rights of others.
I think you're taking a bit of an unfair beating on your comments. I see your perspective, but only carried out to a very limited extent. Let me ask a couple of honest question to help clarify where you're coming from on this, and how they could actually inform recreational land use policy:
Do you think your status as "disabled", should entitle you to a "right of motorized access" to all alpine areas in the province?
Once in the alpine, does your status as "disabled" ensure that you should have access to everywhere in the alpine? Or just the one designated road you used to access?
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My right to access the bush is no different than anyone else's. I would use a road to get there, and no I would not leave that road. I would hunt as near as I can and enjoy the area just like anyone else. To remove access to the bush by disabling side roads would remove my ability to access the back woods. It would however, provide access to those that can hike in.
This is discriminatory. My access will be removed, but others will still have the ability to access where I cannot go.
If you really want to limit access, then do it to everyone. Deactivate the roads, and POST the area NO TRESSPASSING.
Then we can all hunt the area your closures left me in. You can walk up and down the main roads and I will drive my ORV.
I am sure the wildlife will recover quickly if we all make the same sacrifices in the name of wildlife.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
stay on your island please
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Some more data to chew on.....
Mule deer and access
Behaviour changes What it shows
Habitat selection by mule deer during migration: effects of landscape structure and natural-gas development, (Lendrum et al 2012)
Animals move faster through areas of roads, select habitat away from disturbance
Winter habitat selection of mule deer before and during development of a natural gas field (Sawyer et al, 2006)
Reduced/altered habitat use by mule deer out to 3km from site of disturbance
Migrating Mule Deer: Effects of Anthropogenic ally Altered Landscapes (Lendrum et al, 2013)
Development alters movement rate during migration, implications on arrival times, departure times, birthing areas, locomotion cost
Elk and access
Behavioural changes What it shows
Distribution of Mule Deer and Elk in Relation to Roads (Gregory, 1979)
Avoid areas of high road density and high traffic volume. Effect of Forest Roads and Habitat Use by Roosevelt Elk (Witmer 1985) Avoidance of 250, on either side of paved roads, 125m from forestry spur roads and no avoidance of roads closed to motor vehicles. Thresholds in landscape connectivity and mortality risks in response to growing road networks (Frair et al, 2008) As road density increases elk avoid usage of habitat and increased displacement of elk occurs as they potentially seek more secure habitat. Effects of Roads on Elk: Implications for Management in Forested Ecosystmes (Rowland et al, 2005)
Avoid 250m on either side of a road, animals lived in smaller herds to avoid detection, more tolerate of disturbance when appropriate cover is available.
Why stress matters
Research Literature What it shows Condition, Survival, and Cause- Specific Mortality of Adult Female Mule Deer in North-Central New Mexico(Bender et al, 2007)
Mule deer with high fat and body condition scores had higher winter survival rates
Effect of Enhanced Nutrition on Mule Deer Population Rate of Change (Bishop et al, 2009)
Increased nutritional quality did not increase pregnancy but did increase winter survival and neonate survival. Relations between nutritional condition and survival of North American elk Cervus elaphus (Bender et al, 2006)
Showed increased risk of non-human caused mortality with reduced body fat and increased muscle metabolized.
Species have road density thresholds
Species Road density Literature
Large ungulates
0.6 km/km2 (apparent threshold value for naturally functioning landscape)
Ecological effects of roads: towards three summary indices an overview for north America. (Foreman et al, 1997) Moose 0.2-0.4 km/km2 apparent
threshold of moose in summer and winter respectively
Functional responses, seasonal variation and thresholds in behavioural responses of moose to road density (Hawthorne et al, 2013) Elk 1.0-1.5 km/km2 increased
habitat avoidance and emigration of elk seeking secure habitat
Thresholds in landscape connectivity and mortality risks in response to growing road networks (Frairs et al, 2008) Elk 1.9 km/km2 (Density
Standard for habitat effectiveness
Wolves and access
Behavioral responses of wolves to roads: scale-dependent ambivalence (Zimmermann et al, 2014)
Wolves use roads to travel 2x as fast. Develop cryptic behaviour to utilize roads without increased visibility
How linear features alter predator movement and the functional response (McKenzie et al, 2012)
Wolves select for travel on seismic lines, increased rate of travel, increase encounter rate. Prey are at higher vulnerability when in areas of high density Caribou encounters with wolves increase near roads and trails: a time- to-event approach (Whittington et al, 2011)
Risk of encounter greater around trails
Movement responses by wolves to industrial linear features and their effect on woodland Caribou in Northeastern Alberta. (Latham et al, 2011)
Concluded seismic lines increase wolf predation risk for caribou resulting in avoidance behaviour of caribou Faster and farther: wolf movement on linear features and implications of hunting behaviour (Dickie et al, 2016)
Wolves move up to 3x faster, farther, higher search rate associated with linear features.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
walks with deer
stay on your island please
Sorry to disappoint. I live in the Koots!
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Island Idiots
My right to access the bush is no different than anyone else's. I would use a road to get there, and no I would not leave that road. I would hunt as near as I can and enjoy the area just like anyone else. To remove access to the bush by disabling side roads would remove my ability to access the back woods. It would however, provide access to those that can hike in.
This is discriminatory. My access will be removed, but others will still have the ability to access where I cannot go.
If you really want to limit access, then do it to everyone. Deactivate the roads, and POST the area NO TRESSPASSING.
Then we can all hunt the area your closures left me in. You can walk up and down the main roads and I will drive my ORV.
I am sure the wildlife will recover quickly if we all make the same sacrifices in the name of wildlife.
I understand you.
Believe me, I do.
My dad has quite a bit of disability going on, and I see his frustration, and it hurts me to see him like that.
Yes, he is 80, but has the heart of 25 year old avid hunter.
I too, am facing some serious disabilities that will limit my experience too, on foot.
But, I think in the end (maybe not for us, and our age..i don't know where you are in that stage of the game),
that given time, and if we take other steps to improve habitat, that making these changes to road access might in fact
make the hunting experience better, because I believe it might actually create more game again, or, should I say,
allow game to come back.
And to a point where maybe we see them standing on the side of the road where we can drive.
Ripping up the roads stops everyone.
IF you want to bush wack, then have at it.
But, I think you and I also have to come to the realization, like my dad is, there is a time where some things are beyond
our physical limits, due to age and the body falling apart.
If you find a cure for that one...let me know, as I could use some of that help.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
I'm with you Bugle!
Road density needs restrictions. Dig em up, plant trees on em, turn em back into nature.
Island Idiots, you would still have roads to drive. Just a few less. Unfortunately, it's desperately needed in some areas that have gotten out of control.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
I also agree on road deactivation not just closure.
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
Is there any data showing the effects of "replanted trees" on deactivated roads, and wolf numbers/success?
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
I'm all in favor of nuking side roads and I don't feel it discriminates against anyone. I'm 65 and definitely don't hike into places I did when I was younger and it doesn't bother me that some still do. I try to stay reasonably fit and still enjoy my time in the bush but time waits for no one. As we age there's lots of things we don't do as much as we did when we were young. Personally I think no atv's period should be in the alpine or moose meadows or any sensitive lands and the only way to stop it is to nuke the roads and set stiff fines for unauthorized trail building. Now to Island Idiots, I mean really if the roads hadn't been built would you be lobbying for someone to build them. They were built for a purpose(not hunting or sightseeing) and they should be nuked after that purpose has been full filled
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Re: Lets Talk about Road Acces
For the record I am not against managing access. Restrictions should be in place where they are required. Road right of way and habitat go hand in hand. Spraying to control plant growth is nonsense. Where road density surpasses a certain limit or impacts wildlife road closures may be required.
There has to be an accepted volume of road access that allows reasonable access for all. Seasonal, and altitude restrictions may also be effective.
I don't need to access the alpine to hunt. But that doesn't mean I still don't get brought to tears every time I get close. I am worried soon the only access I will get is if I pay for a helicopter ride to some ritzy lodge for the rich and famous. You cannot imagine the sense of freedom I experience to head out alone into my favorite valley and drive up my favorite side road negotiating some bad terrain and finally getting to my favorite spot so I can be alone with my thoughts and the most beautiful country any one has ever seen.
This Spring I will do exactly that, and it will take me an hour and a half from my driveway. I am not ready to give that up.