Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HarryToolips
Like I said, their methods at least give a good idea of general trends......so do you guys want them to shut down the seasons until we get funding to do complete accounts??? May be waiting a while....a short doe season for whitetails has time and time again proven to be beneficial for the overall population...educate yourselves, there is multiple studies out there....oh right, whitetails in BC are different ok....
Those studies supporting whitetail doe harvest in the southern states, did they have any listing of heavy wolf predation?
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dana
Those studies supporting whitetail doe harvest in the southern states, did they have any listing of heavy wolf predation?
This^^^^. There are usually more than a few factors to consider when making broad based statements like the one below and coming to conclusions based on limited input...........that is if your interested in presenting a "scientific" arguement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HarryToolips
..a short doe season for whitetails has time and time again proven to be beneficial for the overall population...educate yourselves, there is multiple studies out there....oh right, whitetails in BC are different ok....
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HarryToolips
Like I said, their methods at least give a good idea of general trends......so do you guys want them to shut down the seasons until we get funding to do complete accounts??? May be waiting a while....a short doe season for whitetails has time and time again proven to be beneficial for the overall population...educate yourselves, there is multiple studies out there....oh right, whitetails in BC are different ok....
Harry you have some research but missing things
BCs WT are no different then other WT of the North western subspecies ( exception is Dakota subspecies in the North east BC). But the big difference is the density and populations elsewhere are often higher.
Part of BCs WT populations are not at the level to apply the management BC is using and BCs theory on why they are applying the management is very debatable.
WT in BC are a scape goat for BCs MD issues. Dig deeper here and it makes a guy go WTF. I can tell you for a fact many MUs are not meeting goals set. BCs MD are managed very poorly, selective data used, and based off selective parts of other management systems.
There is a lot of things about BC I don’t post because I have been asked not to
You have passion, some knowledge, and hearts in the right place but there is a lot more going on then you see
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
I wonder how many hunters take a moment to make sure the doe they have their sights on doesn't have a fawn close by. More than once I have let a doe pass, as after watching it for a couple of minutes, it's fawn walks out.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walksalot
I wonder how many hunters take a moment to make sure the doe they have their sights on doesn't have a fawn close by. More than once I have let a doe pass, as after watching it for a couple of minutes, it's fawn walks out.
Some do some don’t
Some don’t think about it and go it’s legal and shoot. Some look at it that by that time of year the survival rate is high enough. Some don’t care thinking they are saving MD. There is no doubt a portion that try to select dry does
Personal ethics is the factor here
Truth is under strong WT populations this has little impact and it is personal ethics
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wild one
Harry you have some research but missing things
BCs WT are no different then other WT of the North western subspecies ( exception is Dakota subspecies in the North east BC). But the big difference is the density and populations elsewhere are often higher.
Part of BCs WT populations are not at the level to apply the management BC is using and BCs theory on why they are applying the management is very debatable.
WT in BC are a scape goat for BCs MD issues. Dig deeper here and it makes a guy go WTF. I can tell you for a fact many MUs are not meeting goals set. BCs MD are managed very poorly, selective data used, and based off selective parts of other management systems.
There is a lot of things about BC I don’t post because I have been asked not to
You have passion, some knowledge, and hearts in the right place but there is a lot more going on then you see
I have been trying to get this message across on here forever. White tail deer in BC are a throw away species. Most BC hunters accept it because of they were sold a line BS by wildlife management staff, who needed a cover for there screw ups.
And most BC hunters have no clue as to how or where to hunt a white tail buck.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IronNoggin
Interestingly enough, moose have been colonizing areas once recognized as the domain of the whitetail in Saskatchewan (parkland strip and south through the agricultural lands). Kind of interesting to see moose wandering around wheat & barley fields!! :shock:
And in Alberta, there are places I hunt that the mulies TOTALLY dominate the whitetails. Yep, the smaller cousin is and has been there for decades, but there is no way in hell they'll ever take over the badlands and major river coulees from the Mulies.
Cheers,
Nog
I would Not make such a bold assessment.
Lots of those impenetrable MD strongholds on the prairie no longer exist, nothing but WT now.
Habitat change appears to be the driver that tips the advantage to WT.
In my short time here I've seen MD dominated landscapes with pockets of WT completely flip where MD are now few to non-existent.
What does this say for the long term?
Maybe Geist is right....
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walksalot
I wonder how many hunters take a moment to make sure the doe they have their sights on doesn't have a fawn close by. More than once I have let a doe pass, as after watching it for a couple of minutes, it's fawn walks out.
Scientifically, it doesn't make any difference in fawn mortality if you do take the doe. Our season is timed well past the 70 day weaning period for WT fawns, and they can look after themselves just fine.
WT are gregarious animals, and the fawn will take up with other deer quickly. One recent study in the US showed that nearly 50% of fawns sampled did not have DNA matching the doe(s) they were with.
If it bothers people on a personal, moral level not to take a doe with a fawn, then by all means, pass on the shot. There will be another doe showing up before long that is alone.
We tend to look for dry does because often these barren does are less productive and are heavy feeders, and at the top of the social pecking order. I'd rather see a few fawns get that nutrition than a single doe that is doing little except filling her belly.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fisher-Dude
Scientifically, it doesn't make any difference in fawn mortality if you do take the doe. Our season is timed well past the 70 day weaning period for WT fawns, and they can look after themselves just fine.
WT are gregarious animals, and the fawn will take up with other deer quickly. One recent study in the US showed that nearly 50% of fawns sampled did not have DNA matching the doe(s) they were with.
If it bothers people on a personal, moral level not to take a doe with a fawn, then by all means, pass on the shot. There will be another doe showing up before long that is alone.
We tend to look for dry does because often these barren does are less productive and are heavy feeders, and at the top of the social pecking order. I'd rather see a few fawns get that nutrition than a single doe that is doing little except filling her belly.
This post would have been much better without the last sentence.
There is no way for a hunter to know WHY a particular doe is dry.
There are to many variables for assumptions to hold any credence.
Re: Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walking Buffalo
I would Not make such a bold assessment.
Lots of those impenetrable MD strongholds on the prairie no longer exist, nothing but WT now.
While I can agree there are places "on the prairies" that have gone the way you have described, I simply can not see that happening in the Drumheller Badlands area, nor the big coulee country along the Saskatchewan River. I've hunted some of the latter areas (wmu's 148 & 150) for several decades now. There have always been "some" whitetails present. But again, there is no way in hell I ever see them dominating mulies in those areas.
Also agree that is most likely due directly to the type of habitat. Tends to favor the mulies methinks.
Long term for mulies? If your government doesn't destroy them all in the name of CWD "management", I tend to believe they will make out just fine in the areas I noted. Others locations, perhaps not so much...
Cheers,
Nog